Thursday, February 13, 2025

Find out how to handle stress at work


00:00:00: Introduction

00:00:54: Systemic causes of burnout

00:04:18: Vital statements

00:11:11: Stunning matters

00:16:30: Take-away actions

00:20:40: Closing ideas

Helen Tupper: Hello, I am Helen.

Sarah Ellis: And I am Sarah.

Helen Tupper: And also you’re listening to week three of the Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership.  So, that is the sequence that we’re working in affiliation with LIT Videobooks in January, the place LIT Videobooks have given all people who’s a part of the Videobook Membership free entry to their library of videobooks.  And we have now chosen 4 to concentrate on, 4 that we weren’t essentially that conversant in beforehand, that we have now watched for everyone and we have tried to take our insights and assume how they’d apply to profession growth.  However you may as well watch it alongside too and get entangled.

So, this week our focus is on Burnout, that’s the videobook that we have now been watching.  So, in the present day on this episode, Sarah and I are going to speak about our takeouts from watching the videobook, and what we discovered fascinating and helpful.  After which tomorrow, you are going to hear a dialog with Sarah and one of many authors of Burnout, Amelia Nagoski.

Sarah Ellis: So, it is price saying, with this videobook, that the main focus is not actually burnout at work, it is extra the systemic causes of burnout.  And their focus is particularly on girls, why girls may expertise burnout.  And so, I feel if you’re curious to be taught extra about that, there’s some actually fascinating analysis and so they go means, means, means past work and into sort of a number of completely different areas of life.  If you happen to’re extra serious about burnout at work, I feel you possibly can watch the primary chapter and possibly hearken to our conversations, and you will most likely get what it’s worthwhile to apply to your job and your day-to-day work.  So, it’s fairly a distinct videobook. 

There have been some surprises alongside the best way, made Helen and I sort of — we have been like, “Oh, okay, that is fairly completely different to possibly what we’d usually concentrate on”.  And so, have a go.  I feel it is a kind of the place it’s a must to see what you assume, see whether or not it really works for you or not.  However I do assume a few of the concepts are actually helpful when you join the dots between the analysis that they’ve drawn collectively and achieved themselves, after which how one can apply that in your day-to-day.

Helen Tupper: And the ‘them’ is 2 sisters, so they’re twins, the e-book has been written by twins, so that you get to see the twins speaking by way of their insights.  One separate factor, which has nothing to do with burnout actually, but it surely was extra one thing that I discovered helpful yesterday.  So, I watched this videobook once I was on the prepare going into London, and I believed it was actually good.  So, I logged into the LIT videobooks after which I used to be making my notes on the identical time, and it was on my cellphone so the display was hovering over my notes so I may watch it on the identical time.  So, I opened my notes app on my cellphone, after which the little video was simply sitting on the highest of it and I truly discovered that basically helpful, in order that I may simply kind up my notes as I used to be watching.  I used to be like, “Oh, that is truly fairly a helpful, environment friendly means of studying.  I preferred it.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that’s good.  And with the videobooks, you possibly can obtain them earlier than commuting so you do not want wi-fi.  So, I did that truly for a couple of of them once I knew I would received a prepare journey, in order that’s good.  And truly, you are proper, as a result of I discovered I used to be usually watching them at residence on my laptop computer and I must pause or be like, “I simply want to jot down that down” or, “I simply want to return over that bit”.  That might have helped me truly to be concurrently making notes. 

I do fantastic with the videobooks truly, I undoubtedly have interaction with them probably the most once I was making notes, writing issues down, which we all know, we all know you be taught extra from that.  However the minute I simply relaxed an excessive amount of, virtually like sat again in my chair and simply watched it, I received distracted.  I used to be like, “Oh, I would like to simply do that, or what about this?” and I discovered it fairly laborious, I discovered it fairly laborious to simply keep it up.  Whereas once I was like, “No, what’s standing out for me?  What’s stunning me?  What motion am I going to take?” after which truly, virtually to have the ability to do this, I needed to do away with the distractions. It is fairly fascinating, I feel, the method, as a result of it is like a brand new means of studying, it’s a must to determine how you can be sure to are literally studying from it, moderately than only a few occasions I used to be like, “I am watching a squirrel out of my window, and I’ve simply missed the final 5 minutes.

Helen Tupper: “Again to it”!

Sarah Ellis: Yeah.

Helen Tupper: Yeah, completely!  And so, Sarah and I’ve watched all of the videobooks with three questions in thoughts.  And the questions are, what assertion has caught; what stunned you; and what are you going to place into motion?  And I might say, whether or not you watch those that we have really helpful or any of the opposite LIT videobooks within the library, simply to be a bit extra intentional about your watching and studying.  I feel it is fairly helpful to do it with these three questions in thoughts.  So, Sarah, from Burnout: Fixing Your Stress Cycle, what was one thing that caught?

Sarah Ellis: Effectively, there was a phrase they used, which was, “Which means is one thing that you simply make”. 

So, one of many factors they make in burnout is that you simply’re much less prone to burn out if you’re related to one thing greater than your self.  And that does not should imply saving the world, however that, I suppose, does imply that you simply really feel that you’re contributing not directly.  So, that may be you have received a really clear sense of legacy, they use the phrase legacy like, “If I’ve managed to do these items by way of the work that I do, I’ll be ok with that”.  It may be to do with neighborhood. 

And truly, they use a phrase that we use, which is they are saying, “A great way to determine your that means in a really sensible means is simply to ask your self, ‘What do we would like individuals to say about us?'”  And I used to be like, “Oh, okay, yeah, I feel that could be a good place to begin”. Additionally, I may shortly then join the dots, as a result of I used to be actually watching this by way of the work lens and pondering, “Effectively, what do I need individuals to say in regards to the work that we do at Squiggly Careers and at Superb If?” 

After which I can join these dots to go, I need individuals to say it is helpful, I need individuals to advocate it by saying, “This has actually helped me.  This has virtually made a distinction to how I method a profession dialog or an interview or growing my confidence”.  It undoubtedly resonates with me that when you’re feeling extra confused, for those who return to the ‘why’ like, “Why does this matter to me?” usually yow will discover your means by way of these extra traumatic moments, as a result of it offers you that enhance of motivation.

So, you may be pondering, “It has been a very busy couple of days”, or I do not know, if it is you and I, often we have over dedicated, we’re doing an excessive amount of.  We had that chat earlier than we even began this podcast.  However I used to be like, “Oh, however are you aware what?  If we do issues which can be helpful and that individuals use of their work, that is nice, that is what we’re right here to do”.  So, I discovered that basically useful.  And it jogged my memory truly of a quote that I am going to come again to in a second from Natalie Campbell

So, Natalie, who’s the Co-Chief Government of Belu, which is a water model, which I feel they’re both a social enterprise or a neighborhood partnership, so they provide all their income, I feel, to a water charity, she ran to be mayor of London.  She’s actually inspirational, she’s been on the podcast earlier than.  She gave us a quote in her finest piece of profession recommendation for You Coach You, which I feel has that very same sense of if you’re fascinated with function and that means.  And she or he says, “Begin by letting go of the thought of discovering your function.  It isn’t in misplaced property someplace, it’s in your consciousness.  So, step one is hearken to the moments that convey you probably the most pleasure, consolation and ease.  That is the place the core of your function resides”.  After which she goes on and describes a bit extra about it. However you recognize if you hear widespread threads and themes somewhere else, I do not know, it reinforces to you, like, Natalie wasn’t speaking about burnout, however she’s come to a few of the identical conclusions as possibly the analysis.  So, that stood out and I actually like that phrase, “Which means is one thing you make”.  What about you?

Helen Tupper: Effectively, the assertion, it was, “Do a factor”, which I am going to come again to and clarify why it caught for me.  However on the that means, as a result of I wrote that bit down as properly, I discover it helpful and I preferred, they talked about 3 ways you can get that means.  So, legacy, so I assume the dent that I’ve made by way of my work, that concept; providers others, that means as a result of I make a distinction to different individuals; and likewise connection, like I am a part of a neighborhood.  I simply thought, if persons are pondering, “Oh, how do I get to that means?” I wrote these issues down, I believed that was fairly helpful.  And so they additionally mentioned, in addition to asking the query that Sarah talked about, the obituary factor.  So, think about you are 90 on a park bench, what would you like individuals to say about you, all that stuff. 

Simply fascinating, is not it, “What does that means imply to you?” and, “If you happen to’ve received extra that means, it would assist you to handle your stress”.  I undoubtedly took that away. The assertion that caught, “Do a factor”, so that they talked about discovered helplessness, which is one thing that Martin Seligman talks about in his work on optimism.  The discovered helplessness is after we’re in a state of affairs and I feel we really feel like we will not affect it, and so we do not take motion over time.  And so, possibly you are at work, you are going by way of a restructure, or possibly you’re feeling such as you’ve received a nasty relationship together with your supervisor or, you recognize, discovered helplessness means over time, we simply do not feel like we will have management over that state of affairs or affect it in any means.  And I feel a number of individuals have that typically, they’re identical to, “I’ve simply received to just accept it, I’ve simply received to get on with it”, after which it is a continuous supply of stress. What I preferred was that they mentioned, principally, one of the best factor to do in that state of affairs is, “Do a factor”. 

It does not should be the factor that solves the state of affairs.  So, it isn’t like, go and repair a relationship together with your supervisor, or you do not have to resolve the restructure, or no matter is occurring, however truly simply doing one factor, some little factor that is in your management, which may be, I do not know, even take a day’s vacation and go and do some studying, or go and ask for a mentor or one thing.  It does not should be that the factor that solves the supply of stress, however simply taking some sort of motion could be a response, a constructive response to a state of affairs the place you’re feeling very uncontrolled.  Simply do a factor, just about something; however doing nothing signifies that you are caught on this stress state of affairs, and doing a factor is a method that you simply really feel extra management over it and over what you are doing.

Sarah Ellis: We talked about it earlier than on the podcast with individuals like Jen Moss, I feel we talked about burnout earlier than, however it’s one thing to take significantly, as a result of if you have a look at the implications of burnout, whether or not that is in a distinct a part of your life or at work, time and again it reveals that for those who get burnout, you get to the purpose the place you could have a decreased sense of accomplishment, so that you simply really feel like what you do does not matter; you are much less artistic; your processing capability goes down; you are not as capable of clear up issues; and you may’t do large-scale pondering.  Once we’ve talked about it earlier than on the podcast, I feel I am by no means positive I have been absolutely burnt out the place I’ve wanted to do one thing very dramatic when it comes to taking a break. 

However each time I’ve received near, I feel, burnout, I do discover that every one of these behaviours diminish.  My capability to zoom out, to assume large, to assume creatively, you get smaller in each means. I feel for those who can discover that taking place, as a result of I do assume it tends to creep up, it is a number of repeated actions.  So, for those who’re at work, for instance, it may be you’re feeling a bit overwhelmed, however then the subsequent week you are still feeling a bit overwhelmed, after which the subsequent month you are still.  It tends to be like that.  

And I am pondering regularly, and possibly earlier than you even discover it, it’s got to the purpose the place you are like, “I am unable to bear in mind the final time I did not really feel actually overwhelmed and I do not really feel very artistic and I am unable to assume large and I am struggling to unravel issues”.  I feel the extra we will spot these indicators for ourselves and likewise for one another, I feel it may be actually useful to see in one another, the extra we will help ourselves and help different individuals too.  So, what stunned you?  Did something shock you?

Helen Tupper: Effectively, so within the first chapter, and once more, that is most likely the one which, as we mentioned, is most related to work, there’s rather a lot in that.  Simply this concept of the stress cycle stunned me, I feel. 

So, they speak about, if you’re getting confused, the factor that caught with me was that it’s worthwhile to discharge the stress.  Nevertheless it’s simply this concept that for those who do not construct right into a busy day or a traumatic week, for those who do not construct a way of discharging stress, and discovering that means is one among them, train could possibly be one other one, I feel all of us might need other ways by which we discharge stress and so they do discuss by way of some methods, then principally your physique cannot full the stress cycle.  And what they are saying is that your physique principally then holds on to that stress, and it may end up in well being issues, and that is a few of the issues that Sarah simply talked about there. 

I feel simply actually pondering like, “How am I discharging stress?” They discuss in regards to the energy of train and whether or not that may be a bodily factor, or truly simply sitting at your desk and sort of tense respiratory and even tensing all of your muscle tissue up, that is one of many examples that they provide; tense all of your muscle tissue up for a minute after which letting go.  So, it does not should be loopy bodily train.  Nevertheless it did simply make me assume, you recognize, I am going on about my peloton on a regular basis, I am truly dressed to peloton in the present day, however for me that’s truly, I feel, a part of how I full my stress cycle, as a result of I get on there and afterwards I simply really feel like I can get again to it now.  And, yeah, I identical to that concept of if we do not full this cycle, then our physique holds on to the stress and that has damaging outcomes.  So, take into consideration this factor as only a means of maintaining your physique wholesome, simply discharging no matter’s constructed up.  That simply undoubtedly caught with me.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, the identical for me.  I feel it was this concept of releasing the stress.  It is a completely different course of to dealing with stress within the second.  I feel that is what they’re very clear about.  You have to disconnect dealing with the stress within the second.  And I feel typically we’d assume, “That is it, I’ve coped with the traumatic second”.  However truly, you want a separate course of, which is sort of the releasing.  I used to be speaking to Helen about this earlier than and I used to be like, we could say, and clearly that is imagining, I am actually annoying Helen.  We’re having a tough dialog that feels traumatic.  We’d have these conversations and I’d assume, “Oh, okay, properly I felt like I stayed actually open in that dialog and I handled it, I handled possibly some hard-to-hear suggestions properly and we received to some good outcomes”.  And so I’d assume, “Oh, that is okay, it was traumatic however I did the correct issues”, and also you may be ok with your self. I feel the bit that I would not have then at all times considered goes, “Oh, sure, however I’ve not launched that stress. 

I did properly in that second and that could be a good factor”.  So, at work, I feel we will all establish these moments that really feel traumatic to some extent, relying on what that scale is, from a really tough supervisor, as a result of it tends to be people-related, or it could possibly be workload, I assume, moderately than individuals, may simply be like, “I handled the stress of my day.  One thing new got here in that then I needed to change my priorities”, and so we would virtually go, “Effectively, I did it, I handled that stress”, and you probably did.  However then fascinated with, “Okay, properly, what motion do I have to take to launch that stress in order that it does not construct up over time?” after which if it builds up, that is if you’re get to burnout. It did actually remind me of simply how essential it’s to search out lively relaxation.  And we have talked earlier than about lively relaxation.  And lively relaxation might be, and so they do give this an instance, possibly you are making one thing, could possibly be something artistic.  So, truly I had some individuals in workshops this week speaking to me about knitting, how a lot they like knitting and gaming.  So, knitting, gaming, each good examples of lively relaxation, in addition to the extra traditional examples, like go for a run, elevate some weights, go and play desk tennis.  I say that as a result of me and my accomplice purchased one another a desk tennis desk for Christmas!  That is going to be my lively relaxation in 2025.  I am very enthusiastic about it.  However jokes to at least one facet, that will most likely be good for me.  So, virtually going, “Have you learnt what?  That has been fairly tough.  I’m simply going to go and play desk tennis for 5 minutes or 10 minutes”.  I would should be absolutely in it, as a result of clearly I would need to win.

Helen Tupper: Sarah’s fairly aggressive at every little thing.

Sarah Ellis: I am fairly aggressive.  However that will be an excellent launch of stress for me.  I assume it’s probably a few of the logic behind why, for some time, workplaces went loopy with the, “We’ll put all of those enjoyable issues within the workplace”.  There most likely is a few rationale behind why that may be good, however not if that is an alternative choice to precise significant work and being paid properly.  A desk tennis desk does not make up for that.  However truly, if all of the hygiene elements are in place… I noticed an organization not too long ago, one I went to go to earlier this yr, the place they’ve a great deal of board video games.  And truly, I noticed a great deal of individuals taking part in board video games and simply having enjoyable.  And I’ve to say, it wasn’t within the UK.

Helen Tupper: What’s your favorite board recreation, Sarah?

Sarah Ellis: Attention-grabbing.  I do not love board video games.  I would moderately play a recreation, you recognize, like desk tennis.

Helen Tupper: So, extra lively.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I truly do like charades, as a result of my 7-year-old likes charades.

Helen Tupper: I really feel like that is not a board recreation!

Sarah Ellis: Oh, is not it?  Does that not depend?  Okay.

Helen Tupper: That’s an lively!  I like that, I like how you have taken board recreation and turned it into an lively!

Sarah Ellis: Oh, it does not depend?  I really feel such as you’ve requested that query since you are — what’s your favorite board recreation?

Helen Tupper: Effectively, you recognize I am board-game-y, as a result of that is the kind of factor that I might do as a household, like play a board recreation.  No, my son, who’s the final word strategist, beats me on every little thing, so, any board recreation he is received.  So, it is like Cluedo; wins each time.  I really feel like each board recreation.  However yeah, I like all board video games, they’re enjoyable.  So, what may you do because of having watched this videobook?

Sarah Ellis: I feel the important thing motion for me was recognising the other ways to finish the stress cycle.  So, it isn’t like there’s a method, you possibly can shortly full the stress cycle by some four-box respiratory.  So, you recognize for those who simply needed to do a little bit of decompressing, and I do know that, however I do not assume I do this notably frequently, but in addition making extra of a dedication to lively relaxation, I feel in 2025.  It appears like a small factor, however I’ve not too long ago moved home and I would received lively relaxation in place near the place I used to stay, so it was handy to lively relaxation, and so it actually labored for me.  After which I’ve moved and I have to rediscover what that may appear to be, simply because truly there are some sensible constraints that make it a bit tougher the place I’m now, like we solely have one automotive, I do not stay as near someplace that I can simply stroll to, and I simply want to consider it. However I do know, we at all times know, train is sweet.  

However you recognize if you watch these items and it simply actually reminds you, it is like principally do something, do any train.  And I feel it is really easy to get into the behavior of not.  I am good at strolling, I do exit for a stroll, however I virtually do not depend that as train as a result of I feel, “Effectively, my coronary heart price by no means goes up for a begin”, and I am virtually utilizing that extra as a sort of getting some vitality and shifting my physique, as a result of I am about to start out work and it is possibly my very own model of a commute if I am working at residence.  And I do not assume a stroll releases my stress cycle, as a result of often I am fascinated with work or I am making ready for work, and it is initially of a day, not on the finish of a day.

 And so, I feel I would like to finish my days releasing stress and I do not assume I do this in the intervening time, as a result of I feel usually I am working the place I’ll simply stroll downstairs, and possibly not have that boundary of like, I’ve gone and achieved one thing, not achieved some lively relaxation. This one mixed with speaking to Katie about change, I am undoubtedly beginning to try this contemporary begin impact, and it at all times begins with like, “Proper, in 2025, I’ll do these items”.  And in addition, making an attempt to be actually lifelike about how you can make that occur, moderately than too obscure.  What about you?

Helen Tupper: Mine was the that means factor.  So, Emily, one of many sisters, was very articulate, as a result of she may simply say what her that means is in an announcement.  And I believed, “Oh, I do know what our firm’s that means is, about making careers higher for everyone.  However my private that means, I feel, may be barely, properly, just a bit bit extra particular person.  And I do not assume I may — properly, I am unable to say it now.  If you happen to mentioned, “What offers you that means at work?”  And so I believed, I began to jot down it down, like I mentioned, once I was on the prepare, as a result of I had my notes open, I began to jot down one thing down.  I used to be like, “It is getting there”. 

After which, one of many issues that they mentioned is, you possibly can ask different individuals.  And I may say to you, “The place do you see me get that means in my work?”  And I’d ask a few those who and simply see if I can get to an announcement that I can establish with that I am going, “Yeah, that is why I do what I do.  That is the factor that provides me probably the most that means”. 

I would wish to take that as an motion away from it.

Sarah Ellis: It is a great way of doing it, as a result of I used to be like, “Oh, yeah, if I used to be fascinated with you…” and clearly firm missions and functions are at all times extra common, like, “Oh, we need to make Squiggly Careers higher for everybody”, it isn’t going to be a person assertion.  And in addition, I used to be pondering, properly, for you, I would be actually stunned if there wasn’t one thing extra people-y in there.  And I would count on there to be one thing round vitality.  The vitality and the individuals and bringing individuals collectively and the vitality that you simply get from that, I used to be like, “That feels extra such as you”.  I feel mine can be about concepts, like concepts which can be helpful for individuals, most likely so simple as that.  That capability to do one thing possibly that hasn’t been achieved earlier than, however that you then see individuals use and that you simply’re like, “Oh, yeah, individuals may level to that”, and be like, properly, you have created one thing right here that is made a distinction. 

As a result of once I take into consideration what I am happy with it, it is at all times the place we have now created one thing. Most likely additionally, I would have one thing about creating with different individuals, as a result of my favorite creations, the concepts that I really feel most related to, are by no means those that I’ve achieved solo, they’re at all times ones that we have labored on collectively.  So, possibly it is about collaborative creation.  Nevertheless it’s an excellent query you see.  So, yeah, it makes you assume it by way of

. Helen Tupper: I’ve added vitality into my work-in-progress assertion, so thanks for that little construct.  So, that’s it for in the present day.  Do not forget that tomorrow, you have received Sarah, who’s going to be speaking to Amelia, simply to get her direct perspective on the work, and likewise make these connections to profession growth.  After which subsequent week is the final week of the Videobook Membership, the place we’re going to be Predictably Irrational, a videobook by Dan Ariely

So, we’ll be diving into that, after which I’ve received a dialog with Dan about that as properly. Sarah Ellis: So, that is every little thing for this week.  Again with you once more quickly.  Bye for now.

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