00:00:00: Introduction
00:00:59: Why affect is necessary
00:02:36: Seven abilities of affect
00:04:03: Vital statements
00:10:27: Stunning matters
00:15:01: Take-away actions
00:20:21: Last ideas
Helen Tupper: Hello, I am Helen.
Sarah Ellis: And I am Sarah.
Helen Tupper: And also you’re listening to the second week of the Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership. So, that is one thing that we have now created to kickstart your studying in 2025, and in addition create a little bit of a neighborhood round one thing we actually care about, which is improvement and focusing in your profession improvement. At this time, Sarah and I are going to speak a couple of videobook which was recorded by Bob Cialdini and it is known as Affect: the Psychology of Persuasion.
Sarah Ellis: And so, why is affect necessary in our Squiggly Careers? I believe there are some things when you consider affect. I used to be reflecting on, when do we have to have affect in Squiggly Careers, and I believe there’s two ‘whens’. There’s the when that is related to your work, to your day job, after which there’s the when that is related extra to your profession.
So, I believe in your profession, there are specific moments that matter the place you need to have numerous affect. So, when you’re in an interview, you are making an attempt to affect that individual to offer you a task; if you’re making a profession change, you are making an attempt to affect someone that you’ve these transferable skills, you are making an attempt to steer individuals; and I believe in a extra day-to-day approach, which I believe is how affect sometimes in all probability reveals up extra generally, we’re all making an attempt to affect one another, I believe, all the time, which might really feel a bit uncomfortable. I believe as I used to be going by way of this videobook, fairly a number of of the ideas and concepts did make me a bit uncomfortable. However I believe right here, that is actually about simply being good.
So, if we wish to have affect, usually we have to share our work with different individuals, we wish different individuals to be on board with that work, to assist and to sponsor that work, so I do suppose affect does not need to be — we’re not manipulating. As I used to be going by way of, the reconciliation I believe I acquired by way of in my very own thoughts with a few of these concepts was, there’s a distinction between affect to extend your affect, and manipulation, which is extra, I do not know, seedy, and also you’re doing one thing in not a really good approach simply to get a sure or simply to get your individual approach.
After which, once I take into consideration the individuals I’ve labored with who’ve actually unimaginable affect, I’d by no means describe them as manipulative. I’d simply at all times describe them as, they knew how one can construct actually good relationships. And I believe there is a actually sturdy connection between your potential to construct good relationships after which your potential to affect. That was the method I went by way of as I watched the videobook!
Helen Tupper: Effectively, to be truthful, I believe Bob Cialdini within the videobook does acknowledge that on fairly a number of factors.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, he does.
Helen Tupper: So, if that is the primary time you are coming throughout his work, he principally talks by way of these seven completely different abilities actually of affect, these various things that you are able to do to affect an consequence. And I’ve come throughout his work years and years in the past. I imply, his guide is a New York Instances bestseller, after which some. And I believe I got here throughout it within the context of selling in all probability like ten years in the past, as a result of in advertising and marketing, numerous time you are making an attempt to affect somebody to buy. And so, they’re notably related to that career, in addition to work and careers extra broadly. However he does discuss within the videobook about when someone may be utilizing this explicit ability of affect in a approach that is a little more manipulative, and what are the watch-outs for that. So, I believe he does cowl it. And his insights about these abilities are primarily based on years and years of analysis.
So, within the videobook and his precise guide, there’s numerous analysis that he talks by way of to convey these items to life. So at the moment, Sarah and I are going to speak about a few of these abilities.
We’ll discuss issues that caught with us and issues that we discovered stunning and issues we will do on account of watching the videobook. After which tomorrow, you may hear a dialog with me and Bob, the place he really shares a number of extra of these kind of analysis tales. You will hear slightly bit extra from his perspective, a number of years on after writing the guide, his kind of up to date view, as a result of the truth is there is a new ability that he added extra just lately, which is one thing known as ‘unity’, the ability of unity in influencing individuals. However we will see whether or not that was one thing that caught with Sarah or not. So, go on, let’s begin. What was one thing that caught with you from watching the videobook?
Sarah Ellis: Effectively, the phrase that I wrote down was this concept of ‘peersuasion’. And that is the idea of what he describes as ‘social proofing’, which is basically we’re actually impacted by our friends, so what different individuals are doing, those who we perhaps really feel are just like us, and even simply doing an analogous factor to us. After we make choices, we’re nearly much less influenced by what we expect and extra influenced usually by what different individuals suppose. And once more, I’m going, “Oh, I can see how that’s true, but additionally I wish to be influenced by what I believe”.
However when you then take into consideration procuring, so once you go onto plenty of web sites now, it at all times says, you already know, “29 different individuals are this merchandise”, actually a boring merchandise I am often shopping for for my new home, like this bin, it is often a bin. “29 different individuals are this bin”, or issues like, “5 different individuals have gotten this bin of their basket” and I believe it creates a way of urgency and he talks about this FOMO, Concern Of Lacking Out. And I nearly felt like really understanding that, generally understanding a few of these techniques, you may make a alternative about whether or not to be influenced by them. So, reasonably than simply pondering, “Effectively, I am going to purchase this bin as a result of all people’s shopping for this bin”, you suppose, “Effectively, do I actually need this bin? Is that this the suitable bin for me?” which tells you a bit about what’s occurring in my life proper now and the way boring it’s!
Helen Tupper: It is numerous bin chat!
Sarah Ellis: It is numerous bin chat. However I used to be pondering from a piece context, I do suppose it’s fascinating, as a result of usually I believe once you’re making an attempt to affect, you consider the individual. So, I may be like, “Oh, I must affect Helen round this determination that I want her to say sure to”. And that may be true. However one different factor that I’d wish to do is consider, effectively, who does Helen spend time with? And who’s Helen influenced by?
As a result of I’ve usually seen this with management groups. Like, for this reason individuals find yourself, perhaps earlier than choices, going to have conversations with fairly a number of completely different individuals, as a result of if you may get a number of individuals on board after which if Helen wasn’t that certain however her friends had been all saying, “Oh, yeah, I believe it is a good thought, I believe we ought to be investing on this”, then Helen may need been on the fence, however perhaps that is the form of tipping level to suppose, “Okay, effectively, I respect the opinions of the those who I work with, the friends that I work with, and so really, it is an fascinating approach of influencing. I used to be beginning to consider careers and taking actions round careers, and the way we may assist individuals with that by kind of going, effectively, really, when you create a very sturdy neighborhood, if you consider peersuasion as neighborhood, which is one other tackle it, really communities performing collectively and sharing what they’re doing will assist to affect, have a very optimistic ripple impact. So, somebody may say, “Oh, effectively, I attempted asking this strengths suggestions query. That is the query I requested, and are you aware what? It labored very well”. After which in that neighborhood, you go, “Oh, okay, effectively, they’re all a part of the Squiggly Careers neighborhood, perhaps I am going to have a go at asking that query”. I may think about then the ripple results of peersuasion really being actually optimistic when you put that neighborhood lens on it, “Oh, however he does not discuss that, however this was me making my very own connections”, in order that’s the place I acquired to.
Helen Tupper: I believe that can also be why we’re asking individuals to share their badges to say, you already know, “I am a part of the Videobook Membership”, as a result of once you see individuals such as you studying, it makes you wish to study too. There’s one thing he mentioned, I wrote down, within the videobook on this level, and he mentioned, “If they will, I can”. That is form of a part of the peersuasion. And so, if you have not shared your Videobook Membership badge but, please do, as a result of then extra individuals will wish to study like you’re. The factor that caught for me was the factors he mentioned about authority.
So, one in every of his rules is that we’re influenced by individuals in positions of authority. And there is one thing I believe in what he mentioned, which is useful so that you can know, so how one can affect individuals along with your authority. After which I believe it is also, you already know, Sarah talked in regards to the watch-outs. I believe there is a little bit of a watch-out to this as effectively. So, particularly what he mentioned that caught with me was that, “You may get authority both since you are in authority”, which is positional energy, you already know, you are a supervisor, you are a director, you are a head of the mission, no matter it’s, so positional energy, “or you’re an authority”, so you’re seen as someone who has experience in that space. And I believe we’re not at all times in authority, we have not at all times acquired that position in an organization, however I believe that you’ve got the ability to turn out to be an authority. So, if I take into consideration us, I have never had a Head of HR job in an enormous company, however I’d argue that we’re an authority on profession improvement, as a result of we have now actually targeted on that space and we have performed numerous work on that space and we have written books on it. However that’s one thing that nobody mentioned to us you’ll be able to or cannot try this, we determined to do this and we have turn out to be an authority in that space.
I do like the concept that’s one thing that is in all of our management. We would not be in authority, however we are able to all turn out to be an authority, and that has affect over others. So, I like that, that caught with me, as a result of I felt it’s miles extra liberating than the ladder, proper? The ladder is all about being the authority due to positional energy, and I discover this thought extra liberating. However the watch-out is the truth that we’re influenced by these items, notably people who find themselves in authority, so they have that positional energy. That may be all the things from they are a senior director or they’re a physician or, you already know, these items the place we put labels on individuals as a result of we see them as somebody who’s in authority.
However simply because they’re in authority doesn’t imply that what they are saying, it’s important to associate with or consider. I believe simply having a little bit of a pause and saying, “Simply since you are in authority, does that imply I actually wish to be influenced by you?” and simply asking your self that query, as a result of intuitively, that does have an effect on us; however when you pause and simply query, “However do I actually wish to be influenced by you simply since you’re in authority?”, I believe it is fairly a very good behaviour to construct in the best way that you just suppose and the best way that you just wish to be influenced by issues. So, what stunned you then? What was one thing you had been like, “Oh, did not anticipate that”?
Sarah Ellis: There was an instance that he shared about procuring trolleys or procuring carts, as I believe they’re described within the US. It stunned me and felt actually memorable as usually, I believe perhaps generally we’ll make the error of pondering, when you have a good suggestion for one thing, that can create affect, like if the standard of the thought is nice, that is adequate. So, I am going to share an thought with you, and I will be like, “I really feel like I am actually assured on this thought and really, by me sharing the thought, that can affect you, as a result of so long as I share it in the suitable approach, it is a good suggestion”.
However this instance proves that a good suggestion is commonly not adequate to steer individuals, to affect individuals, notably round, I assume, behaviour change or doing one thing completely different. The procuring trolley instance is, years and years in the past, there’s principally the man, he owned some supermarkets and he went and watched his prospects, which I at all times suppose is a very good approach to consider affect, like go and spend time with individuals. We generally discuss empathy experiences, you already know, spend time observing, watching how do individuals really behave reasonably than declare they behave, which frequently there’s fairly an enormous distinction between these issues. And from spending time in his supermarkets, he realised that individuals’s baskets, which is all individuals had at the moment, after they acquired too full, clearly they acquired too heavy and you then spend much less cash, you cease procuring. And he invented the procuring trolley. And I used to be like, “Wonderful, what an innovation!” And you’d think about that concept would communicate for itself. I am like, you should not need to affect individuals, absolutely you are identical to, “However look, it is greater and on wheels!”
Helen Tupper: “An even bigger basket on wheels, wonderful!”
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, however no person used them. So, individuals did not use them as a result of individuals would actually stroll previous them and all people defaults again to outdated behaviour. And the best way that he acquired individuals, the best way that he influenced and persuaded individuals to at the very least give them a attempt, was he principally used his personal individuals to then go and principally role-model the behaviour that he was searching for. And so, then I believe it does should be a good suggestion, as a result of when you go and take a look at it and it does not work, then clearly it does fall down. However I believed it was a very helpful reminder, as someone who loves arising with concepts, that concepts alone are sometimes not sufficient.
It’s essential to get individuals making an attempt it and you should take into consideration how do you make it straightforward to do this, how will you get different individuals role-modelling it, these form of early adopters. And generally, you may need to suppose actually creatively about what that appears like, and that may begin the affect and persuasion that then provides your concepts the legs that you just’re searching for. So, yeah, I imply partly in all probability as a result of I’ve labored in grocery store, however I simply beloved the instance. I believed it was a very fascinating story, and I may actually join it to the work that we do, the place generally I believe I’d be a bit responsible of generally pondering, “Effectively, what we have give you is so good, it will be superb, as a result of it is so good. Why would individuals not wish to use this?” Whereas you are like, “Okay, really, we have started working a bit tougher”. It was a very good reminder.
Helen Tupper: There was one factor that I used to be like, “That could be a good level”, which is the, ‘get a small sure to an even bigger sure’. I used to be like, “Oh, I might forgotten about that time”. So, once more, within the videobook, there’s this instance given about they needed individuals to place an enormous signal outdoors their home about, was it about environmental issues or one thing, recycling?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: I can not bear in mind. They needed individuals to place an enormous signal and other people simply would not try this, as a result of who desires an enormous signal outdoors their beautiful home?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, on their garden.
Helen Tupper: Yeah. And so, that was an enormous ask and so they acquired an enormous no. So, what they did as a substitute within the experiment was they knocked on the homes and so they mentioned, “Would you assist this marketing campaign we’re doing by placing a small sticker in your window? And since that was a smaller ask, they acquired extra yeses. However the actually fascinating factor is, after they went again to these homes per week or two later and mentioned, “Thanks to your assist, would you be prepared to place this check in your backyard to assist us?” much more individuals mentioned sure.
So, I believe at work, if there is a huge ask, perhaps do not go in first with an enormous ask. Take into consideration what could be a smaller ask that’s extra prone to result in a sure, and you then’ve acquired that small dedication.
And it signifies that then, once you go in with a barely greater ask, you are ranging from a barely completely different place. I might kind of forgotten that time, and I believed that is fairly a great way, as a result of generally you simply concentrate on the large factor that you really want, and you then get a no and you’re feeling a bit defeated by it. However going, “Effectively, if that is what I need, what’s the very first thing I’ll ask for?” to nearly heat the dialog up, after which I can return to that individual for the larger factor. So, shifting on to motion then, what are you going to do otherwise on account of having watched this videobook?
Sarah Ellis: Effectively, one of many issues that did stand out for me was precisely what you’ve got simply described, round small actions result in important actions. And he describes specifically, when you do wish to affect somebody to do one thing, if they’ve an motion that’s constant, actually lively and public, such as you’ve really shared an motion, I assume it is like sharing a videobook on LinkedIn, that is a public discussion board; I guess, it is a speculation, however I guess when you share that you just’re a part of the Videobook Membership on LinkedIn, you’re more likely to observe all the videobooks, simply because you’ve publicly dedicated, though nobody’s watching you or holding you to account.
Helen Tupper: I’m all people, I’m!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, aside from Helen, who someway is watching you all! So, I used to be serious about, I’m wondering what this might imply for a way we method profession improvement. So, usually we do, in our workshops and in our programmes, we’ll discuss small actions. So, I used to be like, “Oh, that is a very good factor”. So, reasonably than us saying, we’d discuss strengths-based suggestions is an efficient factor, however then we might at all times drill all the way down to it; one small motion you’ll be able to take is, ask your supervisor or a colleague three phrases to explain me at my greatest. Or reasonably than saying, discover your values, we might say, write down three issues that matter to you at work. So, I used to be like, “Oh, that is good”.
So, I believe we do the small motion factor effectively. What I do not suppose we do as effectively is the making it public. So, usually on the finish of a workshop, I’ll say to individuals, or on the finish of a programme, I’ll usually say to individuals, “Share within the chat now the one motion you are going to take”, and I get some individuals doing that, however approach fewer than I’d have in that group. And so, I am not getting that many individuals to share publicly their motion. After which in consequence, I am in all probability influencing these individuals lower than I’d wish to, as a result of I need these individuals to go and take these actions. And I bear in mind the instance within the videobook of, Bob Cialdini was making an attempt to get his college students’ dad and mom to fill out a type, and principally none of them did it as a result of who likes filling out a type? After which he modified his method the place he mentioned to the dad and mom, “In case you fill out this way, your child will get one additional level of their project”, or no matter it was. And I used to be like, “Oh, that is fascinating”. You are simply giving individuals a small motivator to do one thing that you really want them to do.
You are making an attempt to affect them to do it. I used to be pondering, there isn’t any payoff actually. There is no promise or no payoff that I give individuals as a part of our studying to share their motion. I simply principally say — I do say, “Share it, and when you share it, you are extra prone to decide to it”, like sharing works. However there isn’t any speedy payoff, there isn’t any in-the-moment payoff. And so I used to be pondering, how may I finish these periods otherwise that might imply, to illustrate 25% of individuals share their small motion now, what wouldn’t it take for me to affect 85% of these individuals to share their small motion?
So, I used to be pondering perhaps that might be, for everybody who shares their motion, may we then instantly ship them one thing at no cost? May we ship them a brief model of Gremlins, like how one can overcome your confidence Gremlins? May we share with them some unique content material that you just solely get when you’ve shared your motion. So, I hadn’t fairly acquired to what I’d then give that individuals would actually worth, as a result of I believe it is acquired to be one thing like, all people desires yet one more level on their project, proper? So, I like how easy and straightforward and compelling that’s. And so, I hadn’t fairly acquired but to what our factor could be, however I did just like the psychology of that. And I consider that that was a win-win. It is a win for us if individuals go away and take motion, like we’re influencing individuals to take motion as a result of it is going to create a snowball impact of improvement and studying; and I consider that I’m influencing individuals for the suitable causes, it felt like a very good factor to affect.
Helen Tupper: So, I did have the peersuasion factor as effectively, however I believe one of many actions I wish to take is, one of many rules that we’ve not talked about an excessive amount of but is reciprocation. So, if I assist somebody, they’re extra possible to assist me, so I can affect them by giving first. And I form of knew that, we have talked about that earlier than, it is one thing that comes up in Adam Grant’s work on Give and Take, and we have now this precept in our work known as, ‘individuals serving to individuals’, which is kind of primarily based on that, that individuals like to offer and givers get extra. So, I form of already knew that.
However the factor that I took from the videobook was that the timing is absolutely necessary. So, if you’re giving to someone with the intent, I believe, of influencing, and I do not suppose all giving is with the intent of influencing, however if you’re giving with the intent of influencing, then the timing of that’s necessary. So, I am not going to offer to Sarah on a Monday after which in two weeks’ time, make an ask. I simply want to consider, effectively, when is Sarah going to be nearly most receptive to reciprocation, and simply suppose slightly bit extra deliberately about who I am giving to and what I am giving and once I’m giving.
As a result of I believe I like giving, giving feels good. But when I wish to affect then I simply should be a bit extra intentional. That is in all probability simply the motion I’ve taken away from it. So, that’s the finish of at the moment. We’d love to listen to your reflections when you’ve been watching the videobook. So, you’ll be able to both electronic mail us these ideas and insights. We’re helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com, or you’ll be able to be part of the neighborhood dialog which is going on on LinkedIn dwell this week, the week of the podcast, on Thursday. So, we would like to see you there and listen to what you have to say if you wish to be part of that. And we additionally wish to say an enormous thanks to Lit Videobooks, who’ve made it potential for everybody to study within the Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership, as a result of they’ve given you all free entry to their videobooks for 2 months. So, don’t fret if you have not watched it but, you’ve got acquired till the top of February to get entry to the videobooks.
Sarah Ellis: Subsequent week, we’ll be speaking about burnout and stress, which I promise might be extra enjoyable than it sounds. So, be part of us for that, however that is all the things for at the moment. Thanks a lot for listening and we’ll be again with you once more quickly. Bye for now.
Helen Tupper: Bye everybody.