00:00:00: Introduction
00:00:59: Present construction
00:01:51: Cause for the subject
00:03:40: Important statements
00:09:15: Stunning subjects
00:12:13: Take-away actions
00:16:25: Last ideas
Helen Tupper: Hello, I am Helen.
Sarah Ellis: And I am Sarah.
Helen Tupper: And also you’re listening to the Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership! It is a new collection, Sarah, it is a new factor for the brand new 12 months. Are you excited?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: She is worked up and that is going to be very helpful to your studying, everybody. That is week one of many Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership. Thanks for becoming a member of us. Hopefully, you are all signed up, so you have bought all your login to LIT Videobooks and you have all the things that it is advisable to study together with us this month. This week, our focus is on change, and the videobook that we’re going to be diving into and discussing is The right way to Change by Katy Milkman. So right now, you have bought a dialog the place Sarah and I are going to share our reflections from what we realized from the videobook after which tomorrow, in order that you recognize what’s coming, Sarah has a dialog with Katy to get her perspective instantly. So, you have bought a form of two-part podcast, quick dialog right now between me and Sarah with our learnings, after which a dialogue with Sarah and Katy tomorrow.
Sarah Ellis: And so, the construction for our conversations collectively, we’ll begin with why we selected the subject, why we thought it was related within the context of Squiggly Careers; we’ll then share, from watching the movies, a press release that caught out to us; then, one thing that stunned us, so perhaps simply one thing we did not know earlier than, or perhaps one thing that was counter to our present opinions; after which, an motion that we’re personally going to take having watched the videobook, as a result of I believe that is all the time what we’re attempting to do after we’re studying, is you do not simply need to study in a vacuum, you all the time need to be pondering, “Nicely, how may this studying assist me; how can I be higher as a result of I’ve frolicked watching this videobook?” and that is the place it begins to really feel actually related for you, to your roles, to your profession.
So, we have tried to try this as nicely, and hopefully that’ll provide you with a little bit of inspiration to get began too. So, change in a Squiggly Profession, most likely the best one to attach the dots between Squiggly Careers and alter, as a result of we’ll all the time say that our careers right now are characterised by that change and uncertainty, the potential and prospects. And I used to be pondering, there’s change that occurs to us, so there’s typically various change that we expertise at work that’s out of our management, we’d not know it’ll occur, so we do not count on it or we’re stunned by it; after which, there’s change that you just select. And I believe modifications that you just select might be actually small or they are often actually important, and it is the second sort of change that we’re actually specializing in right now and that the videobook actually focuses on. So, whether or not you need to make a small change, like redesigning the way you perhaps get your work achieved, or simply getting a bit higher at setting boundaries in every week, or whether or not you are like, “No, I’ve bought a very huge change in thoughts”, we’re speaking profession change, we’re speaking, “I’m going to train a lot extra this 12 months than I’ve ever achieved earlier than”, or perhaps you have bought, that is the 12 months you are doing a marathon. I noticed somebody we’re related with, truly Daisy Buchanan, who’s been on the podcast earlier than, is doing the London Marathon.
So, you recognize while you’re like, “Wow, she’s bought a big — I do not assume she’s achieved a marathon earlier than”, in order that’s a big change that you just’re like, “Nicely, I’ve not achieved one thing and I’ll do one thing”. I typically assume with change, it is a from and a to, I all the time consider froms and tos. And so, I believe we’re all making modifications on a regular basis, we’re all selecting these modifications that we need to make and I believe it is all the time truthful to say that a few of them are extra profitable than others, like some work and a few do not, and I believe watching this videobook helps you to determine what to do to present your self a greater probability of succeeding with any sort of change that you just select. So, Helen, what was the assertion that caught out for you?
Helen Tupper: And by the best way, Sarah and I’ve not shared our solutions.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, no.
Helen Tupper: So, there’s a hazard that it is the identical assertion, the identical stunning factor. And in addition, in the event you hear me flicking, it is as a result of I made a number of notes. I all the time assume that is an indication of a great watch, is the place you have made a great deal of notes. So, the assertion that caught for me was, “Effectivity is laziness”. Did that work? That is not yours?
Sarah Ellis: No. I do do not forget that from the videobook and truly, I did discuss to Katy a bit about that, so I believe it is a good one to select.
Helen Tupper: So, my takeaway from that assertion was, if you’d like change to occur, truly we are able to sort of play into our sort of human laziness. So, you make it principally actually, very easy to do one thing. She talks about designing defaults into your work. So, for instance, to illustrate you assume, “Oh, are you aware what? I need to begin my day with studying”, that is your factor, you are like, “I need to begin my day with studying. That is one thing that I need to do that 12 months. And so, I’ll put ten minutes of studying in my diary initially of on daily basis”.
Now, I might say that is solely 50% of how you’ll make that occur. So, it is good that you have put that into your diary. That does make it a bit simpler in the event you’ve designed it into your day, it has grow to be a little bit of a default. However you have not put the training into that second. You’ve got nonetheless bought to search for the training, proper? And so, I believe truly, in the event you put a coach-yourself query in, so you place in your week, you place your ten minutes in your diary initially of the day, and then you definitely add the coach-yourself query in, so you’ll actually open up that assembly, the query can be already there, then that is lazy studying, proper? You’ve got already achieved the laborious be just right for you. And so, I believe these sort of nudges and moments the place this factor that you just need to do is designed into your day and it has grow to be a default, I haven’t got to place lots of effort into making it occur.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, so mine was barely totally different. So, there is a phrase that Katy says the place she mentions, “Our thoughts is extra like a sieve than a sponge”. And I believe it is also a little bit bit stunning as a result of I used to be like, “Oh, we all the time like to think about our minds as being spongy, after we’re studying and we’re absorbing loads”, however it’s price remembering how a lot we neglect, basically. And he or she talks about this concept of the ‘intention-action hole’, and straightaway I believe everybody goes, earlier than we even describe that, you get what that’s relating to change.
All of us have the most effective intentions, and there’s a motive that we then do not fairly observe that via to motion, despite the fact that we need to, it isn’t that we’re not dedicated to creating that change occur. And that is the place she talks about methods that simply assist us to shut that hole, in order that your intention is more likely to lead to motion. And so, whether or not that is issues like dedication units, and a few of these are extra, I believe it is truthful to say, extra carrots and a few of these are extra stick. And the stick ones are likely to work higher as a result of we’re extra motivated by issues like loss aversion. So, a dedication machine might be, for instance, like a monetary penalty. A number of the examples that she offers are like, “Okay, nicely if I do not do that, I’ve to present £10 or $50, I believe the instance is, to a charity that I do not assist”, which I discovered a bit — I used to be like, “However certainly all charities are effective?” however she was speaking about them from a political perspective. I believe within the US, there’d be some charities which can be extra politically motivated.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, there is a man on the video who put £7,000, what was that web site? I used to be like, “I’ll lookup this web site”. Beeminder, and you’ll pay to your objectives. So, I believe he had this factor, he was going to skydive, and if he did not do it by a sure day, he’d principally lose $7,000.
Sarah Ellis: I do know, that is actually dramatic, is not it?
Helen Tupper: Wow, you have to actually care about skydiving!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah. And I do fairly like, I imply, a few of the videobooks, a few of the pictures or the movies do shock you. So, there’s knife-throwing in that video.
Helen Tupper: Sure!
Sarah Ellis: So, if you have not watched it but and you are like, “I wasn’t actually anticipating to see knife throwing, however…”
Helen Tupper: The man with no shirt on throwing a knife!
Sarah Ellis: I do know, actually good!
Helen Tupper: I used to be like, “Okay, good for you!”
Sarah Ellis: In each videobook I’ve watched to this point, there’s something barely left discipline and random that I have been like, “Certain!” The opposite factor that may shut your intention-action hole is the individuals you encompass your self with. So, if I’ve bought one thing I need to change, if I can discover another person who desires to make the identical change, and in the event you can have that accountability group or connection, that makes a very huge distinction. And reminders, however reminders that reduce via, so uncommon reminders that seize your consideration, so they don’t seem to be too simple to disregard. And there is a number of examples of these issues. It positively did make me assume, “Okay, I am fairly good at making intentions. I prefer to look forward and I am all the time fairly motivated by change”, however there’s positively generally a spot by way of these intentions and whether or not they come to fruition. And there are issues you can begin to see that you just’re like, nicely, if I put these items in place, it doesn’t suggest I am going to do all of them, however I believe your proportion hit price of what number of modifications you truly make would positively go up.
Helen Tupper: It sparks some concepts. You understand when she talked concerning the sort of stunning reminders, she had this instance of there was an alien on the video in entrance of a until.
Sarah Ellis: I discuss to her about that within the interview! She’s bought the alien, like on the video she holds up the alien, she’s stored it!
Helen Tupper: So, the concept of the alien is it reminds you to do one thing. And it is virtually, as a result of it is stunning while you see it, it virtually acts as a little bit of a cue. And I used to be fascinated by our subsequent ebook, which I will not go into an excessive amount of now, however there are particular actions that we might need individuals to take because of studying our ebook. And I used to be like, “Oh, how may we create the equal of the alien to assist individuals keep in mind to take motion?” However some insights for one more day, nevertheless it positively sparked my pondering there. So, second factor, what was one thing that she talked about that stunned you?
Sarah Ellis: So, she describes this concept of the ‘recent begin impact’, and I believe in my thoughts, that is a kind of issues that is virtually grow to be a bit commercialised, you recognize like New 12 months, New You, and I used to be a bit sceptical about it and I used to be like, “I wager it does not work”. Like, January isn’t any totally different to every other month, virtually it’s best to simply while you need to make a change, it’s best to simply make a change in that second. Nonetheless, what her analysis has proven is that truly, the recent begin impact is beneficial, as a result of it form of primes us to need to change to do one thing totally different. And so, it does not must be January, it may well truly be so simple as a Monday, like the beginning of every week; it could possibly be put up your birthday; it may be put up a vacation.
Discovering these recent begin moments are literally good occasions to assume, “That is when I’ll begin to make a change”. So, I believe I would most likely simply thought, “Oh, I simply wager that is not true”, as a result of you recognize we all the time take into consideration damaged resolutions, you recognize, how many individuals truly stick with them? However one of many factors she does make, and I am unable to keep in mind the precise numbers, is sure, a number of individuals do not observe via on their resolutions, however are you aware what? Fairly a giant proportion of individuals do. And so, you typically give attention to what does not occur, however then we form of lose sight of what does occur. And so, if you’re fascinated by making a change and also you’re listening to this in January, that could be a good time. We’re in the proper of second. And if for no matter motive you are listening to this in one other second of the 12 months, you may virtually deliberately set a recent begin impact by pondering, “I am going to begin on Monday”, or, “I am going to begin after this huge occasion”, or, I do not know, “If I’ve bought Friday off, then the subsequent Monday could be a great time to try this”. I believe simply not underestimating how helpful the recent begin impact might be, that was what stunned me.
Helen Tupper: So, mine was additionally the recent begin impact, however in order that I do not simply repeat what you mentioned, and I am simply going to flick via my notes, environmental modifications can supercharge the recent begin impact. So, you have bought Sarah’s factor of like the beginning of every week, or the beginning of a brand new job, or one thing like which can be moments that create the recent begin. However in the event you add that to an environmental change so, “I am now working in a distinct workplace”, or, “I am working in a distinct house”, these two issues collectively, it is a new week in a brand new place, that actually, actually supercharges how efficient that is for the recent begin and the re-committing to issues. We will not all the time transfer places of work, however we may work from a distinct place. I may assume, “Have you learnt what? On Monday, I’ll begin my day, I do not know, I’ll earn a living from home on a Monday and I’ll work in a café within the morning”, or one thing like that. My recent begin dedication, no matter it’s I need to obtain that week, is extra prone to be efficient if perhaps I begin the week working in a barely totally different place. Possibly it is the novelty of the brand new is compounded by these two issues. I believed, “That stunned me”. I hadn’t actually considered including these two issues collectively.
Sarah Ellis: So, what motion are you going to take? So, you have realized loads about change, and I believe we each actually loved this videobook. We had been each fairly fizzy, weren’t we, after it?
Helen Tupper: Yeah!
Sarah Ellis: We had been like, “Oh, that is actually useful”. It truly prompted a great deal of concepts for the work we do supporting individuals with their Squiggly Careers, in addition to for the work do with organisations and for ourselves. I believe that is positively one the place we each felt like we realized loads and there was loads to use, a number of fascinating insights. So, from all the things, what was your motion?
Helen Tupper: I imply, I did just like the recent begin impact, so I did assume, “I’d simply take into consideration, throughout the 12 months, the place are my pure recent begin moments?” I believed I’d simply map these moments a little bit bit. So, Monday looks like a great one, how do I make {that a} recent begin? So, I like that. I additionally appreciated, so you recognize you talked concerning the reminders and shutting the intention-action hole, and she or he talked concerning the alien, like a cue generally is a highly effective solution to remind you of your intention? I believed I’d create a number of extra cues for issues that I need to do. So, what I wrote down was, “When, then”. I’ll create a number of cues like, “When I’m on my Peloton, for instance, then I’d hearken to a podcast”. I all the time go on about like, “Oh, I have not bought time to hearken to a podcast”. I sit on a Peloton for like two hours every week. I may most likely Peloton while listening to a podcast. So, I believed I’d create a number of extra ‘when, then’ cues to assist me stick with a few of the issues that I need to do. So, that was simply an concept that was sparked by listening to her. What about you?
Sarah Ellis: So, mine was to be actually particular about modifications you need to make. And so, one of many issues that I need to do extra in 2025 is simply how a lot I am utilizing AI as a part of the job that I do. And so, beforehand I may need mentioned, “I simply need to use AI far more than I do right now”, and I would be like, “That is the change I need to make”. And I believe from watching and studying from Katy, I used to be like, “That is not ok, that is not going to assist me to vary”. And so, one thing that may be significantly better can be, “I’m going to experiment with including AI into each constant assembly and second we’ve got as an Superb If group”, so then you may actually pinpoint.
And there aren’t that a lot of these, however I’d say, “in January”. So, virtually the extra you may drill down into precisely what that change goes to be, what that is going to seem like, when are you going to do it, how are you going to make that occur, it is sort of like visualising, I suppose, however you have written down with lots of readability what that change seems like. I believe I may most likely even go additional. That was my first try, and even speaking to you now, I am like, “Oh, after which I may…” like, I added January then after we had been simply speaking.
I hadn’t truly bought that written down, as a result of I believed, “Really, are you aware what? That most likely feels life like to do in a month”. After which truly, for February, I would most likely need to construct on that. Possibly February is extra about attempting out some new instruments or some totally different instruments. And I believe by including that degree of what it seems like, I really feel such as you’re then form of pre-determining, “I’ll do it”. And he or she talks loads about, while you say a change out loud, while you share it with different individuals, you form of maintain your self to account a lot extra. Even in the event you’re giving recommendation to different individuals about AI, as a result of individuals will ask us much more now about AI and careers, you are then more likely to take that recommendation for your self. For one thing like AI, which I believe is a a lot larger a part of what we’re doing now with our studying and growth round careers, I need to practise what I am preaching, and to have the ability to give that recommendation in a very credible means. So, I like this concept of being actually granular about change. You understand the ‘5 whys method’, the place you drill down, you drill down, you drill down? I believe it is form of making use of that sort of logic to modifications. So, in the event you’re listening now and you have a change you need to make, I might actually encourage you to carry it to life in as a lot element as you may, as a result of I believe it is actually useful, and I believe you notice the gaps you have bought too.
Helen Tupper: It is fairly a pleasant hyperlink as nicely with subsequent week’s matter on affect, you recognize that concept of you make a dedication, after which what individuals are likely to do is that they act in methods which can be in keeping with that dedication. So, having now mentioned out loud that that’s what you are going to do, you’re more likely to then act in ways in which reinforce what you have mentioned out loud to our 1000’s of listeners and learners who’re a part of the Videobook Membership. So, that’s it for right now, as a result of we need to preserve this quick so that you just go spend a while hopefully watching the videobook and taking your individual learnings from it. However Sarah can be again tomorrow for her dialog with Katy. So, some fast insights into what we are able to count on from that dialog, Sarah?
Sarah Ellis: I believe Katy does a superb job of summarising the insights she’s gained from her analysis, which is over an extended time frame. She’s bought actually good examples. And one of many issues that we have not talked about right now, which we do speak about in our dialog, are issues like gamification and play, and the way essential having fun with change is, and this concept of one thing known as ‘temptation bundles’, which once more, neither of us have picked out in our dialog right now, however I did discover actually fascinating. So, there is a little bit of reinforcing a few of the ideas you and I’ve talked about, however there’s additionally various new information as nicely.
Helen Tupper: So, hopefully you discovered this a helpful dialog and that you’ll be part of us for our group dialogue, which is on Thursday. It is best to have all the hyperlinks for that if you wish to come and contribute to that, but when you have not, simply e mail us, helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com. And thanks for becoming a member of us within the Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership. Sarah Ellis: Thanks a lot for listening everybody, see you once more quickly.