Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:02:45: Format for the podcast
00:03:03: E book decisions
00:12:15: TED Discuss picks
00:22:41: Helpful podcasts
00:32:00: Blogs and newsletters
00:37:36: Folks to comply with
00:42:30: Ultimate ideas
Interview Transcription
Sarah Ellis: Hello, I am Sarah.
Helen Tupper: And I am Helen.
Sarah Ellis: And that is the Squiggly Careers podcast. Every week, we speak about a distinct subject to do with work, and share some concepts and actions that we hope during the last yr and during the last 470-plus-ish episodes —
Helen Tupper: One thing like that.
Sarah Ellis: — have helped you to navigate the Squiggly Careers that all of us have with that bit extra confidence and management. And you may most likely inform already from the tone, the relaxed tone, that it’s our final podcast of 2024. In case you are listening to this on the day that it goes out, it is New Yr’s Eve, and your dedication to profession growth is spectacular.
Helen Tupper: Spectacular, nicely carried out you!
Sarah Ellis: Effectively carried out you! Otherwise you’re escaping your loved ones and you are like, “Yeah, I simply want to actually take heed to this for work”!
Helen Tupper: Additionally, nicely carried out you!
Sarah Ellis: Sure! So we thought, what’s going to really feel helpful on the finish of the yr, or maybe simply over the vacation festive season, a shorter sensible hear? And so, we thought we’d do our prime 10 books, podcasts and other people from 2024. Principally, what have we been studying from, who’ve we been studying from, what have we discovered helpful? It is form of our curiosity-curated episode. First time we have carried out one like this. We frequently do a type of end-of-year podcast, which you may need already listened to, the place we replicate on our years and do some questions and a few statements to assist us suppose via our yr. However that is rather more about issues that I suppose have helped us. And we hope that this may offer you a little bit of an inventory that you could additionally study from. Or possibly you set collectively your individual record and you would share that with one another in a crew.
Helen Tupper: I really discovered it a extremely helpful private course of —
Sarah Ellis: Identical.
Helen Tupper: — to do that, as a result of it jogged my memory of what I might been studying after which it made me suppose, “Gosh, that took numerous effort. I ought to have saved a studying log, so I might have referred again to it. That might have made life so much simpler in attending to all of the insights of right now’s dialog”. And likewise, it made me suppose, I might wish to create a approach of referring to those issues extra simply subsequent yr —
Sarah Ellis: Identical, yeah.
Helen Tupper: — placing all my hyperlinks in a single place. I even thought, “I’m wondering if there’s some AI factor that may mechanically feed it into a kind of apps, like Pocket, so I’ve curated all these items that I will speak about now, and it mechanically goes to a spot”. So, I used to be going via it and pondering, “I am certain there’s a better approach of doing this than me going via my notes and my bookshelf, and all that type of stuff”.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that is what I did. I stared at my bookshelf for some time, and I used to be like, “Is that this actually one of the best ways to do that?”
Helen Tupper: Precisely the identical!
Sarah Ellis: And I used to be additionally pondering, I used to be making an attempt to additionally ensure that it was issues that had been within the final yr.
Helen Tupper: Me too.
Sarah Ellis: As a result of really, one of many books I checked out, I used to be like, “Oh no, that is really extra from the yr earlier than”. And so, yeah, I believe there most likely has acquired to be a greater course of. However equally, such as you say, it was fairly a helpful course of. So, the format for the podcast, we have every chosen a e book, a TED Discuss, an individual to comply with, a podcast and a weblog. As we undergo, we’ll speak about our respective decisions. We have not shared them beforehand so let’s hope we have not acquired the identical issues, as a result of that could possibly be a bit boring. You begin us off then, begin us off with a kind of Submit-it notes you simply confirmed me offscreen.
Helen Tupper: Okay, my first Submit-it be aware is my e book of the yr.
Sarah Ellis: Okay.
Helen Tupper: It could be my e book of the yr as a result of I realised, I did not learn many books this yr. I felt actually unhealthy about it. I used to be like, “Oh no!” However this one really actually caught out, partly as a result of it was a e book I learn on vacation. So, I believe you are in a barely totally different mindset on vacation. Quite a lot of the time, I am studying in a really environment friendly approach as a result of we’re interviewing somebody for our podcast. However I picked a e book I took on vacation, and it is known as Identical As Ever. It is a e book by Morgan Housel, who additionally wrote The Psychology of Cash. And subtitle is, “Timeless Classes on Threat, Alternative and Residing a Good Life”. And it is mainly a e book that claims, we at all times speak about all the things’s altering, the world’s altering at a sooner tempo, we have now a number of that form of narrative?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: He is going, nicely, that’s true, and there’s a lot of change. But in addition, there’s a lot that’s at all times the identical, that whatever the change, might be constant. And that a few of the issues, for instance, are the predictability of human behaviour over occasions. So, whilst you cannot predict what’s going to occur, you may predict how individuals will reply, as a result of issues like worry and greed are common and proceed. Additionally, he talks about, I assumed this was fairly attention-grabbing, if not somewhat bit miserable, happiness and expectation. So, he mainly says that, “Happiness is extra influenced by expectation than circumstances”. So, it is not how a lot stuff occurs in your life that makes you cheerful or not, it is how a lot you count on that factor to make you cheerful. So, if I am going via, to illustrate our subsequent e book. If I am going via pondering, “That is going to make me so joyful when that’s revealed”, then there’s virtually a possible expectation-versus-reality hole. Whereas for those who go, “I am simply publishing one other e book” after which any happiness I get from that could be a bonus, quite than anticipating happiness as an end result. So, simply mainly be a bit extra balanced quite than anticipating outcomes to make you cheerful.
Then you definately’ll like this one, one other type of same-as-ever precept from the e book, “Storytelling at all times trumps statistics”. The ability of a narrative wins out each time. And so, I simply discover it fairly a balanced e book, and just a few issues that really — and he offers a great deal of examples that, from a very long time in the past, that these items are at all times constant, even when we live in a time of change.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, it is helpful, is not it? I can think about asking your self that query like, “What stays constant, what stays the identical for your self, on your organisation, your business?” It is fairly a superb reflection, as a result of I take into consideration, to illustrate the conversations that we have now with organisations, and we have now been having now for nonetheless lengthy we have been operating Wonderful If full-time, three, 4 years, there are some issues which have stayed the identical. So, we’ll at all times be like, there are new insights, we’re working new methods. And I believe particularly as everyone talks so much about AI, it is simple to overlook a few of these common truths. So, I believe that is a superb reflection. I’ve not learn that. What was the e book known as once more?
Helen Tupper: Identical as Ever.
Sarah Ellis: Identical as Ever, good.
Helen Tupper: So, what was your e book, e book of the yr, e book of 2024?
Sarah Ellis: So, while you say e book, singular, clearly I cheated!
Helen Tupper: The reader begins!
Sarah Ellis: Sure! I discovered it actually tough to decide on one e book, so I did cheat. And what I’ve chosen, and I reckon it is okay, I justified this to myself, I’ve chosen a group of books that each one come out of Stanford.
Helen Tupper: “I’ve chosen the library”!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah! Effectively, they’re all similar in format. So, Stanford Design Faculty write Stanford Design Faculty guides. They usually all look the identical, they’re all the identical dimension. They’re fairly small books, they’re very visible. They’re written by totally different individuals, so I’m dishonest somewhat bit. However I’ve acquired three of them right here in entrance of me. Considered one of them is named Experiments in Reflection; one other, The Secret Language of Maps; and the third, Make Prospects Occur. And I believe they’re simply books. I found them this yr. So, generally you suppose, “How have I not found these books earlier than?” They usually come out of the identical faculty, the identical establishment, as Sarah Steinberg’s e book, Curious Acts for Inventive Folks. So, we have now had Sarah on the podcast earlier than, however I simply hadn’t found these smaller books. And her e book is way greater and extra, she brings collectively a lot of totally different individuals.
So, from every of these books, I simply picked out one factor that stood out to me that is acquired a Submit-it be aware, they’ve all nonetheless acquired Submit-it notes in them. So, Experiments in Reflection, they’ve a extremely good part on questions, they usually speak about how, “Good questions are ones that make you extra curious. They nudge you right into a state of not understanding, so that you simply take into account new prospects”. You’ll be able to ask good questions that do that for different individuals, and importantly, you are able to do this for your self too. And so, what I actually like about their books is they’re pithy, they’re to the purpose, they ask you a number of questions, however they provide you diagrams and visuals and totally different instruments to check out. So, I believe for plenty of our listeners, for those who just like the Squiggly Profession e book, for those who like You Coach You, I am assured format-wise you’d get pleasure from these books. So, that was one perception on reflection.
Helen Tupper: I am having somewhat scan on Amazon now at these books. I did not learn about this sequence. They give the impression of being good, there’s a great deal of them.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, they’re good.
Helen Tupper: They give the impression of being actually good.
Sarah Ellis: That is the one the place in the summertime, I believe you may need been at Disney! So, I found these in the summertime, which really was a superb second of, as a result of we have been writing our e book, I believe while you write a e book, you learn much more books in consequence. So, I’ve learn hundreds extra books this yr, nonfiction books particularly. I at all times learn a number of fiction as a result of I used to be doing a number of analysis for us. And a few of these books hit the mark and a few of them have a paragraph that is helpful, however a few of them you go, “Oh, these are everlasting place-on-the-bookshelf books”, and that is what these have develop into.
The Secret Language of Maps, I actually like. They speak about how, “Irrespective of the kind of knowledge, it at all times wants a human to make which means out of it”. And since it’s a e book about knowledge, they only confirmed a great deal of several types of knowledge. Once more, it is very visible, I discovered it actually attention-grabbing, they usually speak about how you would use knowledge at work in a lot of alternative ways.
Helen Tupper: I imply, I am ordering that proper now whereas I am speaking to you for my husband for Christmas, as a result of I’ve acquired time to get it, as a result of he loves a map. So, that is good, current sorted. I am very grateful for this.
Sarah Ellis: Sure, in order that they’re actually good. And one of many diagrams I am now, they speak about exploring earlier than you clarify. He reveals there’s someone getting concepts, then determining in case your thought is any good, attempt one thing even when it appears nuts. So, they divide them down into one, two, three, 4, make sense of a giant pile of data. I simply suppose they’re actually, actually sensible. It additionally reveals generally, you do not want lengthy books. I am a fan of brief books which might be simply helpful. After which, the third one, which is about making prospects occur, has a complete part on curiosity, which clearly I actually preferred. They usually speak about curiosity being important for studying as a result of, “It at all times leads you to one thing you did not beforehand know”. So, after we speak about virtually serendipity and questioning and at all times rising, at all times studying, I believe we have talked so much in regards to the significance of curiosity earlier than. And once more, it offers a lot of examples.
Every of the books, the books are written by totally different individuals, so they are not formulaic, they do not all comply with the identical formulation. So, this one, the Make Prospects Occur, for instance, could be very neon, but it surely’s acquired extra huge statements and sentences. It talks a bit about what to do in type of moments of rejection. Yeah, so the design of every of them is a pleasure. So, if you’re somebody who’s excited about design, they usually’re not the identical, however they’re straightforward to spend time with, they’re straightforward to choose up and put down once more. However I usually did discover, I’ve really learn them greater than as soon as, however you may learn them in a single sitting. As a result of for those who had an hour, I believe you would make fairly good progress via them. And they’re undoubtedly books to have. Get the highlighters out, get the underliners, put the Submit-it notes. I actually get pleasure from spending time with them.
They’ve develop into a bit like — there are three sequence of books the place I just about at all times purchase them. So, I purchase a number of the HBR books. So, there will be like an HBR e book on judgment or on self-awareness, the place they gather collectively articles, and put them in a single place. And we have been in just a few of these books, in issues like important pondering. So, clearly I’ve really purchased our ones, however I additionally do purchase a lot of the opposite ones. I usually purchase the DO books. So, they’re from David Hieatt, who’s been on the podcast. So, you have acquired issues like DO Tales, DO Scale, DO Agile. One which’s simply come out really on DO Groups, which I’ve not learn but. And the Stanford Design Faculty guides, they’re my three. They’re trusted sources of high quality. I just like the fashion and I’ve acquired all of them on my bookshelf. And so, yeah, with my one e book suggestion, I’ve now given you three e book sequence and you have most likely acquired about 50 books now you can select from.
Helen Tupper: It’s kind of of an aspiration. I might love us to have like a sequence, a Squiggly Abilities sequence, the place they’re brief books on the talents for careers. That is one for subsequent yr. We’ll add it to the record of issues that we’re purported to be writing about. Okay, class: TED Discuss. That is the place I’ve cheated somewhat bit, as a result of I’ve acquired two, however I’ve acquired two for a motive, as a result of the primary one is basically good, but it surely’s somewhat bit heavy. So, I’ve acquired one which I discovered actually, I do not know, fairly significant, after which one which was only a bit lighter. I believe they complement one another very properly.
Sarah Ellis: Okay.
Helen Tupper: Neither of them are actually to do with work, however I believe that is the good factor about TED Talks, is you do not at all times have to look at the TED Discuss that is actually apparent about, like, work-based stuff so as to get some helpful insights. So, my first suggestion is named To Love Is To Be Courageous, and it’s by Kelly Corrigan, who’s an writer and a podcaster. And the explanation that I like to recommend that is I believe it’s a masterclass in empathy, which I do not suppose is one in all my super-skills. And so, simply watching someone discuss via empathy in relationships, every kind of relationships, like buddies, household, companions, and she or he talks about seven phrases that you need to say when you’re listening to someone share one thing that’s onerous for them. It could possibly be something, it could possibly be a work-based factor, it could possibly be an out-of-work-based factor. However seven phrases that you need to say, that are type of just like the masterclass in empathy.
She says these are courageous phrases that you need to say to create connections and help individuals. And the phrases are, “Inform me extra, what else? Go on”. And it’s simply this capacity to stick with someone who’s sharing one thing that’s vital to them and she or he says what courageous individuals do in these conversations, the place individuals are sharing, is they do not take over and develop into the hero. And you know the way you discuss in regards to the distinction between a help and a shift response, the concept a help response is staying with them, a shift response is transferring it to you?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: I assumed it resonated with me, they do not take over and develop into the hero. However I identical to the, “Inform me extra, what else? Go on”, and simply with the ability to sit with a dialog. So, it is a actually transferring one, and I believe she’s good. She additionally provides in little moments of humour into what is kind of a transferring watch. She’s simply very, excellent. And so after it, I assumed, “Oh, you want somewhat little bit of lightness”, and so my lightness, somewhat little bit of lightness, is How one can Discover Laughter Wherever. It is fairly a brief watch, about eight minutes, by Chris Duffy, additionally a 2024 new TED Discuss. And he simply talks in regards to the humour that children can create as a result of they are not self-judging what they’re saying. And he has some humorous tales about issues that children say and issues that children do, and he talks somewhat bit about improvisation and this concept that a number of the time, we’re self-judging and we’re modifying what we’re saying, as a result of we fear about what individuals take into consideration us, all that type of stuff. And youngsters do not have that filter. And he type of talks simply usually about how, for those who undergo life with a bit much less of a filter and caring somewhat bit much less what you are purported to say and do and what different individuals consider you, then really, it is simpler to search out pleasure. And it is a brief watch and it is fairly humorous and it is most likely not going to vary your life, however it’s a fairly good little pairing with a barely extra transferring and emotional one.
Sarah Ellis: I am unable to bear in mind the precise analysis, however I am certain I’ve learn one thing the place individuals are usually at their happiest as soon as they attain, I am unable to bear in mind whether or not it is like their 50s or their 60s, however mainly it is as a result of they care much less and have much less of a filter. Virtually like, with expertise comes letting go of being too important of your self, such as you’re so important of your self, notably in your 20s, I believe, or actually I used to be, and also you simply begin to be a bit extra assured in who you might be, such as you say, most likely simply get pleasure from all the things a bit extra, not get fairly as fearful about all the things. And I am certain that could be a factor of age, and such as you stated, that is the identical form of factor, is not it, simply being ready to only let go and chuckle at your self and chuckle with different individuals, very nice.
Helen Tupper: Sure. Effectively, he says, “Permit your self to be laughed at and know when to chuckle at your self”, so it is precisely what you are saying, yeah.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, nicely you do, you undoubtedly have to try this. You understand when individuals say, “You’ll be able to take your work severely, however by no means take your self too severely”? My favorite individuals by no means take themselves too severely, and I at all times hope that I would not both. However I am lethal critical about work, I actually care about what we do.
Helen Tupper: Sarah’s like, “I am lethal critical about work”!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, nicely I believe you’d solely should learn our WhatsApp conversations to grasp we actually care! However equally, generally I believe we’re at all times good at nonetheless discovering enjoyable and laughing with one another, really in a few of the hardest moments, however in different moments as nicely. And I believe for those who and I ended laughing, I believe that is once I get most fearful, as a result of we have now at all times been capable of chuckle at one another and with one another. I really suppose that is helped us in so many conditions.
Helen Tupper: So, what was your TED discuss?
Sarah Ellis: So, mine wasn’t recorded final yr, however I did watch it for the primary time final yr. So, I used to be studying a bit about, we did that podcast episode, When is Good Sufficient Nice? And we have been developing with this concept as a part of the e book, the place we have been speaking about minimal viable progress, the place it was like transfer issues ahead while you’re feeling a bit caught, or while you’re procrastinating, while you’re discovering issues onerous. And I had really by no means watched Tim City’s Contained in the Thoughts of a Grasp Procrastinator TED Discuss.
Helen Tupper: It is one of the vital widespread ones, is not it?
Sarah Ellis: It’s. I believe it is two or three. It is one thing like 75 million views, however I wasn’t one in all them.
Helen Tupper: What are we at? We’re at like 2 million, a little bit of a technique to go.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, however are you aware what, I am going to take it.
Helen Tupper: I am going to take it.
Sarah Ellis: Speaking about making you chuckle, he has acquired that viewers within the palm of his hand, making them chuckle. He is a extremely pure presenter. He is really good, , good to look at, somebody who seems to be very comfy on stage. Now, what was attention-grabbing about it’s the factor that has actually caught with me, and he undoubtedly self-identifies as somebody who actually procrastinates, he at all times leaves all the things to the final minute, and so on; however the perception that stayed with me was after we procrastinate, there’s mainly two kinds of procrastination. There’s procrastination while you’ve acquired a deadline, which really individuals who do procrastinate discover their approach after they’ve acquired a deadline, as a result of he talks about this factor known as the panic monster. So, you’ve got the moment gratification monkey, who stops you making progress, and your rational self that tells you, “Do issues in phases”.
However then you probably have a deadline, like for us for instance, this yr, we did have a deadline to submit the primary draft of our e book, or each week, you and I’ve a deadline to do a podcast each week, so each week we have now that, there’s a second the place if you’re procrastinating for too lengthy, the panic monster kicks in and also you mainly do make progress. However then, there are issues that you simply procrastinate on the place there simply isn’t any deadline. And he stated, that is really the place individuals begin to actually give themselves a tough time about their procrastination. So, that could possibly be one thing like simply wish to train extra or get fitter, however there is no deadline. For those who’re operating a marathon, there is a deadline, however usually there’s not. And he was saying what was attention-grabbing is when he first began writing about procrastination, he does it in a really light-hearted approach, however he acquired a number of critical responses, individuals going, “That is actually impacting my life. This actually does get in my approach”. And he stated, we have to generally virtually create a deadline that’s going to kickstart ourselves into motion on these issues that do not naturally have, like, actually apparent deadlines.
He confirmed one thing that I believe is basically highly effective, on the finish of the TED Discuss. And I’m going to spoil it, I’m going to point out what it’s. However primarily, he reveals your life as a calendar with a great deal of little squares on a display screen. And he goes, “Is not that the final word deadline? That is not that many containers”. And I am unable to bear in mind whether or not the containers are every week or a yr, but it surely’s type of going, “Effectively, look, that is your complete life as a calendar, roughly, relying on how lengthy you reside for. Is that fairly a superb motivator to cease you procrastinating on that factor, as a result of that is it, that is how lengthy we have got”. And so, whether or not it’s you have at all times had that dream of doing that factor that you simply simply have not began or really feel such as you’ve by no means been capable of prioritise, it is a very form of zoomed out perspective, but it surely’s fairly shocking.
I believe one of many issues that I used to be happy with final yr, nicely, this was nonetheless nearly on this yr, was doing extra memorable experiences with my buddies and my household, which I might form of stopped doing for some time, partly due to life, partly operating a enterprise, having small children, all that type of stuff. And I used to be a bit like, “However why am I not doing these issues? I’ve acquired entry to them, I might make them occur, I am excited about making them occur and by no means really doing it”. It served as a helpful reminder for me of going, simply watch out you are not placing your power and efforts into all the things that is too brief time period or simply within the now, when you do not wish to do this train or while you’re pondering or have not acquired time for it. Virtually seeing a reside calendar is an excellent reminder of why you need to exit for the stroll, why you need to see your folks, these issues that do not mechanically have deadlines and which might be straightforward mainly to place off for an additional day.
I do know Tim’s work, so I’ve acquired Wait However Why on my Kindle. I’ve really additionally ordered — they’ve managed to determine — they solely did it on Kindle initially, they’ve now printed it. It is really fairly an costly e book, however he explains why, mainly as a result of they’ve printed it correctly and it is acquired a great deal of diagrams in. So, he’s value a comply with usually, and his weblog is extremely widespread. However simply that one discuss, I am like, it was so visible, the discuss was, and I believe there’s something for everybody in that discuss, and it is simply actually stayed with me.
Helen Tupper: So, I did that train, becoming a member of some profession growth dots, I did that train this yr. I used to be at a convention the place they acquired us to color in these containers in your life in weeks —
Sarah Ellis: Oh, yeah.
Helen Tupper: — after which speak about it and mark out moments and see the way you have been, what you have acquired left, primarily based on varied issues. It was a extremely attention-grabbing dialogue. However on Wait However Why, there’s, I’ll hyperlink to it within the PodSheet that helps this episode, however you may obtain the template and there is a complete article about how you should utilize it on your reflection. It is known as Your Life in Weeks and it is by Tim City
Sarah Ellis: There you go.
Helen Tupper: So, let’s simply transfer on to our third class. We have now carried out TED Talks, I can eliminate that Submit-it be aware. Let’s speak about podcasts. So, what’s a podcast episode or podcast sequence that has been helpful for you? Shall I am going first?
Sarah Ellis: Go for it.
Helen Tupper: So, mine is a sequence and it is on the How To podcast, which comes from The Atlantic, which I fairly wish to learn The Atlantic. I usually discover they’ve actually, actually good articles.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, they do.
Helen Tupper: And How To dives into every kind of issues, however they have a sequence that is really type of lively in the meanwhile. I believe it could be sequence seven of the podcast, but it surely’s like a ‘better of’ sequence. So, it is like their, “Better of How To”. And so, there’s 4 within the sequence, there’s 4 episodes which might be reside in the meanwhile. There may be the How To Spend Time on What You Worth; How To Relaxation, which is with Alex Soojung-Kim Pang, who we have interviewed earlier than; there’s How To Construct Group; there’s How To Waste Time with Oliver Berkman; they usually’re type of summaries. However the motive that I actually like it’s as a result of it is fairly a pleasant form of end-of-year, start-of-the-new-year hear. It is very balancing, like listening — it is fairly a peaceful podcast, individuals aren’t overexcited. All these episodes are all about discover house and which means, however in fairly a sensible approach. I’ve discovered them simply good conversations to take heed to. They have not radically modified my pondering. I have never gone, “Oh, that is one thing I undoubtedly did not know earlier than”. However they’ve extra jogged my memory of some rules of relaxation, or that losing time will be as vital as being productive at work, generally much more so.
So, it is fairly a comforting hear. I believe the authors, they have a lot of authors that they discuss to on the podcast, are very, very attention-grabbing. And there is just some little, good questions and quotes in there which have caught with me, within the Spending Time on What You Worth, which is with Arthur C Brooks, who I like what he writes within the Atlantic as nicely; however, “For those who had an additional hour a day, how would you employ it?” Simply as ideas on what you worth and what you prioritise. And he talks in regards to the distinction between what you’d do and what you need to do. So, for instance, what most individuals would do is that they’d most likely simply spend it on work. They’d most likely simply do extra of what they’re already doing.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, I used to be simply pondering I might most likely simply go for an additional stroll or learn.
Helen Tupper: Would simply go for an additional stroll and browse one other e book? Learn one other e book, I do know you’d. However he stated really, the factor that’s confirmed to make you happier over the long run is your reference to different individuals. So, what you need to do is spend that point reaching out to someone or connecting with them.
Sarah Ellis: Okay, I did not consider that!
Helen Tupper: That’s the factor that really makes you cheerful over the long run in your life, but it surely’s not the factor that individuals usually select on with out excited about it. But it surely made me suppose and I loved it, and I really discovered it only a enjoyable hear.
Sarah Ellis: I will take heed to these, they sound nice. And I do know a few of these individuals and I do know I am going to get pleasure from spending time with them, in order that’s good. Podcasts are attention-grabbing for me, as a result of a bit such as you have been saying, you have not learn hundreds extra books, I have never listened to a great deal of new podcasts, I believe partly due to how I take heed to podcasts. And I take heed to them as virtually an escape from work. And so, it is really fairly uncommon that I take heed to a podcast to do with work. It usually tends to be very intentional. Our pal, Bruce Daisley, despatched us a podcast hyperlink the opposite day for Data Tree podcast, which is excellent. And I most likely will take heed to that episode, as a result of he despatched a selected episode going, “Oh, that is good for those who write books”. And I assumed, “Oh, okay”. I consider his suggestion, and we do do this factor.
So, I are likely to take heed to a lot of comedy podcasts and meals podcasts, issues that I believe usually are not that helpful for work. And that is not one thing I plan to vary, as a result of really I actually get pleasure from that and sit up for it. However I believe it’s generally good simply to combine up what you might be listening to. And so, I’ve acquired two, each of that are listening to people who find themselves exterior of my regular world, each really private world {and professional} world. So, This Cultural Life is a Radio 4 podcast, and most people, 90% of the people who find themselves on This Cultural Life, I have never heard of, however their work is fascinating. So, possibly they’ve designed the units for Beyonce or Taylor Swift’s present, or —
Helen Tupper: Es Devlin?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, so Es Devlin’s been on it, yeah. She’s been on it, who we do really each, nicely, we do not know, however we each know of her.
Helen Tupper: I want I did know Es Devlin!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, she’s very, very cool. And a well-known individual I listened to lately that individuals will know, so Invoice Nighy was on it. And what’s actually attention-grabbing is, it is form of a meander via someone’s cultural influences. They usually’ve usually carried out actually attention-grabbing issues, labored with actually attention-grabbing individuals, they usually’re speaking about the place they get their inspiration from, what has impacted them. They’re very reflective and artistic conversations, however they’re at a really totally different tempo to, I believe the tempo that we spend our days. They’re slower in tone and even the tempo with which the presenter speaks and the individual speaks. They’re very explorative. And there is very not often something that afterwards I believe, “Oh, I will use that in a workshop or write that down for work”, and even share that with anybody else. However I believe that is fairly good for me; it is simply another.
Then I’ve additionally tried to, as a result of we do speak about this in workshops, and I used to be like, “When was the final time I did this?” So, usually we are going to say, “It is actually good now and again simply to have a random act of curiosity”. Like, This Cultural Life is not 1,000,000 miles away from issues that I’m excited about, so I do not suppose that counts as a random act of curiosity. I believe it needs to be one thing that you simply’re like, “I might not usually take heed to this. This isn’t one thing I might usually select to spend time with”. And also you’re simply doing it simply to be like, possibly to place your self out of your consolation zone a bit, or simply to do one thing a bit leftfield. And so, I did take heed to The Relaxation is Politics. And if somebody stated to me, “Do you wish to take heed to The Relaxation is Politics?” the reply would have been, “No”. I get fearful with politics that individuals are going to argue, and I’ve acquired battle as a confidence gremlin, so I by no means wish to hear individuals arguing in my spare time or my private time ever. And I used to be like, “Oh, everybody’s going to be most likely fairly — it is most likely going to be fairly difficult conversations”. And likewise, I am probably not or immersed on the earth of politics.
So, I knew it was a preferred podcast and I knew Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart, who’re the 2 presenters, I knew of them as a result of most individuals within the UK would have carried out; they’re fairly excessive profile figures. After which, I did take heed to a few of the episodes and it stunned me. I loved it and I discovered them attention-grabbing. They usually had some politicians on who I believe I’ve seen in different contexts. And I do discover it fairly onerous the place I really feel like everybody’s disagreeing for the sake of it. However on the podcast, I believe individuals have more room to be themselves, they are not arguing with another person, they’re being requested. So, they have the liberty to share their story and their perspective. They usually do ask these politicians a bit about why they acquired into politics and what they care about. And also you take heed to them and you are like, “Oh, these are individuals too”, which I believe you do know, however usually possibly you do not hear that story.
Among the tales are literally actually inspiring, like why individuals get into politics and a few of the issues that individuals care about and issues that they’ve carried out, and other people have labored actually onerous to get to that time. They do attempt to give these individuals house. They are going to gently disagree, or they could generally immediate or say, “Oh, , there is a totally different perspective”. However additionally they have individuals like Reid Hoffman. I listened to Reid Hoffman’s episode this yr, who’s the founding father of LinkedIn. His episode is basically good as a result of he is clearly not a politician, however he’s excited about politics. They’ve had Invoice Gates on. And so, I’ve not saved listening to it each week, it is not develop into a daily podcast for me. I do now look in and see who it’s and suppose, “I’m wondering if they’re going to be attention-grabbing”.
There was one man who they did a two-part episode with, who they each clearly actually admired. And I might, once more, by no means heard of this individual, a man from Scotland who I believe was talked into being an MP. They have been like, “Come on, you’d be good at this”. And he clearly had carried out a number of public service, actually been there for his group and did some actually attention-grabbing jobs. And so, it is form of transformed me, and it is jogged my memory why generally you do should spend time with issues that you simply would not usually. And you will not like all of them, and that is okay, however yeah, it was an actual standout for me as a result of I virtually put it on angrily, I used to be like, “I do not even wish to take heed to this”. After which I used to be like, “Oh, that is really fairly attention-grabbing”.
Helen Tupper: On that type of like, you have to type of hear exterior of your regular bubble, my mentor, Julie, advisable me the Legacy podcast. And I listened to fairly just a few episodes of that. And that is the place two historians speak about two historic figures. So, like I listened to somewhat brief sequence on Cleopatra, one on Cecil Rhodes, one on Napoleon Bonaparte, and it is of no relevance to my world, however I used to be like, “Oh, attention-grabbing. Oh, that is why it is known as that”. You understand it is like generally, these historic figures have a relevance right now? And a few of the issues that we are saying or know, I hadn’t joined the dots. So, yeah, that was one other one. I believe generally you may get to these leaps by asking different individuals, “What do you take heed to?” after which go, “I’ve by no means heard of that”.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I believe I might stolen that from another person. As a result of usually in our workshops, we’ll say, “What’s one factor you are studying, watching, or listening to that is serving to you to study or to remain curious?” and many individuals share The Relaxation is Politics. And so I assumed, “Oh, are you aware what, there’s sufficient swell of individuals saying, ‘That is value your time’, that it is value giving a go to”.
Helen Tupper: So, let’s discuss class quantity 4: blogs and newsletters. I imply, that is such a cheat since you and I are purported to have one for every one in all these, and I am unsure on any class but, have we simply talked about one, however we’re allowed. So, to start with, Peps Mccrea, I do not know if that is say his full title, so I am sorry, Peps, if that is incorrect, however he has a publication known as Proof Snacks and it’s all about schooling, so it is schooling, psychology and studying, very a lot within the context of faculties.
Sarah Ellis: Attention-grabbing.
Helen Tupper: However I believe there are some very attention-grabbing insights. He is excellent, they’re very particular, they’re very nicely researched. You’ll be able to go on Proof Snacks, you may get the publication, and I usually scroll via and suppose, “Oh, I did not know that [or] that is a good suggestion. How might that relate to the world of labor?” So, I believe for those who’re excited about studying or schooling, Proof Snacks is nice, join the publication. It is excellent.
Sarah Ellis: We’ll be subscribing straight after this. Sounds good.
Helen Tupper: I prefer it. After which the final one, much less you, extra me, is Surprise Instruments by Jeremy Caplan. That’s all about, nicely, in the meanwhile it is fairly AI-focused, I might say, however instruments that allow you to be higher at what you do. And that is as a result of they make you extra environment friendly or they make your life simpler. Once more, weekly publication. I actually preferred his roundup of the highest 10 of the yr. Additionally, I used to be going via it and I used to be like, “Oh, 5 of these I’ve used”. So, there was like perplexity.ai, there was ideogram, for instance. I used to be like, “Oh, I do not really feel so unhealthy”. I’ve really, this yr, experimented with 5 of these, and I would get on board with the opposite 5 now in the event that they’re within the prime ten. So, I actually like Jeremy Caplan. Extra for those who like tech, experimenting, effectivity, that type of stuff, I might go for his.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, it is attention-grabbing, is not it, with blogs? The factor that I discovered onerous with them, as a result of I subscribed to fairly just a few, is then ensuring you really learn them.
Helen Tupper: Sure.
Sarah Ellis: And I believe that is fairly an attention-grabbing studying behavior is pondering, “Effectively, okay, there’s extra newsletters than you have acquired time for”. However with those that you simply do obtain, how do you just be sure you do then — as a result of I do know the standard of a few of the newsletters that I get is basically good. However generally, I simply discover it tough to then determine, “When do I…?”, like a when query, “When do I learn this?” So, one of many issues I am pondering I would do in 2025 is simply have the identical second each week once I suppose, I am going to put all my newsletters in the identical folder and I am simply going to spend half an hour studying these newsletters.
Helen Tupper: I assumed the identical factor, as a result of I do not suppose I’ve that devoted time.
Sarah Ellis: Identical.
Helen Tupper: And I believe some weeks, I do miss them. However really, this train of wanting again at them I used to be like, “Gosh, these make my mind higher, they’re value me spending time with”.
Sarah Ellis: And you do not at all times should learn them. So, for those who do not already watch Christine Armstrong’s weblog on LinkedIn, then you may subscribe and she or he emails the video to you, for those who simply discover that simpler. There are many video blogs on the market now, and Christine’s is simply so good. She’s so humorous. And truly, I do fairly like the truth that it is video. There’s most likely one thing about that that generally I am going to watch that on a practice. They’re at all times brief, they usually’re a extremely good mixture of subjects, and she or he at all times manages to learn the room, learn the Zoom proper, I believe, when it comes to type of what’s on individuals’s thoughts. So, I do are likely to at all times watch Christine’s, and hers is at all times on a Friday, so I do know it is approaching a Friday. And it is the fitting form of factor that I wish to watch on a Friday as nicely, so I believe she’s acquired the day of the week proper.
However my weblog alternative was the Farnam Avenue weblog, which is Shane Parrish’s weblog. And the explanation I believe I like that weblog a lot, and truly it is an attention-grabbing one, I usually go on to the web site, old-school, quite than essentially it coming into my inbox, as a result of I belief his take. So, his blogposts are often primarily based on conversations he is had with the precise individuals, or he is carried out a number of analysis. They’re easy, they’re straightforward to learn, however they’re at all times considerate. And I do not suppose they’re easy, however with out being overly simplified, which I believe is kind of onerous to get proper. And so, one factor I used to be studying so much about this yr was, he talks in regards to the Richard Feynman — and Richard Feynman is a Nobel Prize-winning scientist — studying approach. And so, I used to be getting my head round that studying approach, and I used to be like, “I do know the place’ll have a extremely good abstract of this, the Farnam Avenue weblog”, which it does. We’ll put the hyperlink to that within the PodSheet and the present notes from right now.
What I usually discover is by studying that article or that weblog from Shane, I then begin clicking round. So, I used to be studying in regards to the protégé impact, which is basically if that different individuals are going to study from us, we do a significantly better job of studying for ourselves, as a result of we then really feel a way of accountability to share one thing in a approach that is sensible. After which I found a extremely good Guardian article on the protégé impact, about the way it will help you study virtually something. After which, and I wager you may bear in mind this, Helen, as a result of we talked about this earlier within the yr, I found this concept of rubber duck debugging, which is when pc programmers practise explaining their code line by line to a plastic toy. And what they’re doing is that they’re verbalising their pondering course of, as a result of then they discover it simpler to establish potential issues of their programme. So, they are not even instructing an individual, they’re instructing an inanimate object. However really, it actually helps them to not solely, I assume, study but additionally to go, “Oh, really I’ve noticed I’ve acquired a spot [or] that does not fairly work.
So, that is the explanation I actually just like the Farnam Avenue weblog. I believe I usually do begin, it is a actually good beginning place on your information, after which you may determine, “Do I’ve sufficient now for what I have to know, or do I wish to dig a bit deeper?” And there is usually good hyperlinks and it takes you in good locations. So, it is a very dependable and reliable supply of studying, for those who’re simply excited about a lot of subjects round studying and profession growth, I believe.
Helen Tupper: So, final class is individuals to comply with, so possibly some people who we began following this yr or a advisable follower for individuals for subsequent yr. So, I’ve two.
Sarah Ellis: In fact!
Helen Tupper: Customary; it is purported to be one, I’ve acquired two!
Sarah Ellis: I imply, why we structured this podcast 5 issues, I do not know.
Helen Tupper: I do not know. It is like, “500 issues to assist your studying subsequent yr!” Effectively, there’s 5 classes.
Sarah Ellis: We most likely have to learn one thing on prioritising, or return to Essentialism, which is an excellent e book, which is like, “Prioritise! Filter!”
Helen Tupper: What I am going to do is I am going to make the PodSheet look actually neat, and actually summarise and fake that — I will prioritise for us after the episode! So, I’ve acquired two individuals, they’re people who I comply with really on LinkedIn. So, that is the place I discover it most helpful to comply with them. And they’re each, once more, to be trustworthy, they’re on the lens of productiveness, effectivity, techniques, which is one thing that simply naturally appeals to me. And the voices are Chris Donnelly and Ben Mear. I believe they do very helpful summaries, posts, actionable instruments that make me wish to attempt them out. I learn the posts, they are not too lengthy and I believe, “Oh, I wish to attempt them out”. They’re additionally highly regarded. I believe Chris Donnelly’s acquired one thing like 978,000 followers on LinkedIn.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, okay!
Helen Tupper: They’re fairly widespread. So, it is seemingly you might already comply with these individuals, however for those who do not, be a part of the plenty, provided that you are excited about that productiveness, techniques, development, you and your development. Most likely are, as a result of that is why you take heed to this podcast, in order that they could possibly be value following. What about you?
Sarah Ellis: Mine is a little bit of a cheat. So, one of many issues that you probably have been a faithful Squiggly Careers listener this yr, you’d have heard me uncover the guidelines. And I really feel like I’m, in a lot of methods, the least seemingly individual to need a guidelines. Considered one of my values is selection. I do not like the thought of feeling constrained. And I believe my beginning assumptions with checklists is like, “Oh, I do not wish to do a job the place I’ve checklists, I do not need checklists to be a part of my life”. Nonetheless, I then learn The Guidelines Manifesto by Atul Gawande. And he talks about mainly how checklists assist us in so many various conditions, and notably round avoidable failures, “That are each widespread and protracted”, he says. And he stated, “Not solely that, they’re demoralising and irritating”. And I believe I felt that.
So, we have got so much higher this yr at sharing our mistake moments. So, we share our mistake moments utilizing Groups. So, with everybody in Wonderful If, everybody reads everybody else’s mistake moments. And the change that we have made this yr, which I believe has been actually useful, and it feels like a small factor, however I believe it is made a major distinction, is we used to only do it in our all-company channel, whereas we then created a channel within the one that everyone can see that particularly says, “Mistake moments”. So primarily, all of our mistake moments are in the identical place, so it’s a lot simpler to identify your individual threads and themes for your self, but additionally throughout the corporate. And I believe a number of our mistake moments are issues which might be avoidable and preventable and comprehensible on the identical time. However neither of us prefer it, we each get actually pissed off with ourselves and like, “Why are we not doing this?”
What I’ve discovered actually attention-grabbing is the reply to, “How are we going to repair this for the longer term? What’s the motion we will take? What have we realized? So, what will we wish to do otherwise?” So, many instances this yr, the reply has been, “Really, we’d actually profit from a guidelines, as a result of this can be a repeatable motion, that is one thing we do greater than as soon as. And traditionally, really, we have not been nice at writing issues down, as an organization”. So, it’s a approach of type of codifying, “Okay, for those who’re operating a workshop in a room, do not forget that is the tech that you simply want”, simply actually easy, fundamental stuff. For those who stated to me, “Do you suppose you need to have the ability to bear in mind this?” I at all times suppose, “Effectively, sure”. However you do not, the purpose is you do not, you do get issues mistaken. And so, I’ve then began following Atul’s work. Notably, you may return on issues just like the New Yorker. He is really been writing for a extremely very long time, not simply on checklists, however on get issues proper, do issues in a greater approach. I believe it is simply that this concept of checklists has each stunned me and caught with me, and I can already see how we’re discovering it actually useful.
My win, I believe, for this week was Helen saying to me yesterday, “You’ve got transformed me to the guidelines”. And so, I also can see the way it’s benefited us all collectively. And it is made me actually excited about his work. I am most likely a bit extra open to following individuals who do discuss a bit extra about, such as you stated, processes or issues which might be extra about effectivity, whereas maybe beforehand, I’ve form of restricted my very own studying by going, “Oh, I am not as excited about that. That generally feels a bit formulaic for me”, but it surely additionally simply reveals why you need to simply be actually open to only making an attempt various things out, as a result of it has been actually, actually useful and I am satisfied it makes us a greater firm in consequence.
Helen Tupper: So, hopefully we have now given you a lot of issues to subscribe to, to have a look at, to learn, because of listening right now. What we are going to do to make that simpler for you is we’ll put the hyperlinks to a prioritised model of what we have talked about on the PodSheet, and we’ll additionally do like a swipeable abstract of this and we’ll put it on our @amazingif web page on LinkedIn. And we might like to know what you’d add to that record. So, you probably have acquired a selected e book or a podcast or a publication or a TED Discuss that has actually resonated with you this yr, please go to the Wonderful If web page on LinkedIn and add it, in order that the group can have an even bigger curated record of assets that they’ll study from in 2025.
Sarah Ellis: However we simply wished to complete the yr by saying thanks. Thanks for spending time listening with us, studying with us. We love our Squiggly Profession group and we actually recognize you exhibiting up each week, you recommending, you score, you do all of these issues. Plenty of you’ve got come alongside to occasions this yr and it has been beautiful to satisfy a few of you in actual life, which has been wonderful. Plenty of you come to PodPlus on a Thursday, the place we type of do a workshop model of the podcast, and that is at all times nice to do too. So, podcasts are at all times a spotlight of our week, not simply the second we’re recording, but additionally the suggestions and the concepts that we get from all of you. And we all know you at all times have a alternative about the way you spend your time. So, thanks for being a part of the Squiggly Profession group and we are going to see you in 2025. Bye for now.
Helen Tupper: See you quickly, everyone, bye.