00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:02: Fast-fire questions…
00:02:23: …1: your 12 months in a phrase
00:05:02: … 2: most memorable day
00:09:09: … 3: mistake moments
00:15:46: … 4: an improved talent
00:20:48: … 5: appreciations
00:24:36: Reflective questions…
00:25:01: … 1: constructive affect
00:28:30: … 2: studying sources
00:35:14: … 3: this time subsequent 12 months
00:37:50: Remaining ideas
Sarah Ellis: Hello, I am Sarah.
Helen Tupper: And I am Helen.
Sarah Ellis: And that is the Squiggly Careers podcast. Each week, we speak about a special matter to do with work and share concepts, instruments and actions that will help you, and it at all times helps us, to navigate our Squiggly Careers with that bit extra confidence and readability.
Helen Tupper: And right this moment is a particular episode as a result of it’s our 12 months in Evaluation episode, which is principally for our most frequent listeners. If that is the primary episode you’re listening to, I am unsure it may be probably the most helpful, however it’s insightful.
Sarah Ellis: I feel the questions are going to be helpful.
Helen Tupper: That is true. We’ll ask one another a sequence of questions, some quick-fire inquiries to mirror on the 12 months, after which some barely deeper ones to get some perception from what we have performed and what we’d do in another way subsequent 12 months. So, the questions are helpful, our solutions may be irrelevant. However in case you are a long-time listener, you would possibly discover it fascinating to listen to just a little bit about our journey in working our enterprise, Wonderful If, and dealing collectively as associates and enterprise companions, and all of the issues that go together with that. Are you prepared?
Sarah Ellis: Prepared.
Helen Tupper: Okay, so we have 5 quick-fire questions. I really feel like I am a bit extra in management right this moment, as a result of I’ve obtained them written down.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, she has the iPad.
Helen Tupper: So, we have 5 quick-fire questions after which we have three barely extra considerate reflections. So, possibly I will ask you yours and I will do mine, so we’ll do forwards and backwards?
Sarah Ellis: Sure, yeah, let’s do it.
Helen Tupper: All proper, okay. So, the primary query, quick-fire query —
Sarah Ellis: And we do not know what we’ll say, so we do not share these with one another beforehand.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, effectively I do know what I’ll say, however I do not know what you are going to say!
Sarah Ellis: No!
Helen Tupper: I’ve performed some preparation!
Sarah Ellis: We all know half of it.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, as a result of these questions I feel, really, only a facet notice, if you will do these questions, I feel placing folks on the spot with them, I feel you need to give folks these questions upfront of a dialog, simply to allow them to give it some thought a bit.
Sarah Ellis: And so you do not have recency bias, since you do must mirror. You are reflecting in your complete 12 months, you are not reflecting on what occurred within the final two or three weeks, and it is really easy to get distracted by that.
Helen Tupper: And we are going to get on to the questions, however I used to be going by means of, I did a LinkedIn publish, I do kind of memorable moments from the 12 months, the place I am going by means of my telephone, 9,000 images from —
Sarah Ellis: Oh my God!
Helen Tupper: I do know, I checked out like my telephone, I used to be like, “2024, it is like 9,000 images, that is quite a bit to scroll by means of!” After which I attempted to choose one photograph from every quarter that was an actual memorable second for me. And that was really fairly prep for right this moment, as a result of it simply jogged my memory of sure issues that had occurred that I am unsure had been high of thoughts once I was answering these questions first time round. You prepared?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: Okay, so your 12 months in a phrase?
Sarah Ellis: Gritty.
Helen Tupper: Oh!
Sarah Ellis: What’s your 12 months in a phrase?
Helen Tupper: Grit! Yay!
Sarah Ellis: It seems we spent numerous time collectively!
Helen Tupper: Okay go on then, why was it gritty? You went ‘gritty’, I went ‘grit’.
Sarah Ellis: Sure, I feel gritty, as a result of it wasn’t like the entire 12 months wanted plenty of grit. However I believed there have been explicit moments in each quarter of the 12 months the place collectively, really, we needed to be very gritty to get by means of them, both as a result of it was a problem that we would not anticipated; we had been making an attempt to complete one thing, and we’re each extra starters than we’re finishers, so it wasn’t essentially at all times one thing had gone flawed; or that we had been simply discovering one thing arduous and it is troublesome, which I feel that is factor. It challenges you, however usually then that is the place you could be at your grittiest to make progress.
So, once I take into consideration once we had been gritty, the precise examples, the conditions and situations, are fairly various, however it was kind of the identical talent that I felt like we needed to hold drawing on to search out our method by means of these moments. And I at all times really feel actually pleased with them as effectively. So, I do not assume grit is a nasty factor. I do not have a look at all these moments and assume, “Oh, that was as a result of one thing was flawed”, essentially. Generally it was, however it’s form of the, what do you could do in these moments? It’s good to be gritty. Why do you say grit? The identical causes, or completely different?
Helen Tupper: Effectively, earlier than I had grit, I had the phrase, ‘push’, and I believed you would not prefer it!
Sarah Ellis: Push? How do you describe your phrase of the 12 months? Push! What had been you pushing? Me?! Push Sarah, do some extra work!
Helen Tupper: Effectively, I feel at first I used to be like, at instances I felt we had been pushing in opposition to one another just a little bit once we had been making an attempt to create issues. We had been making an attempt to push issues. I felt like really, it will have been simpler to not do a number of the stuff that we did, however we had been like, “No, push on”. After which I used to be like, “Push is only a garbage … I imply, the phrase, ‘push’!” So, I went with ‘grit’.
Sarah Ellis: That was fairly bleak!
Helen Tupper: I do know, that is what I believed. So I used to be like, “I can not have push”, however I did have push after which I scratched it out.
Sarah Ellis: So mainly, grit was your good aversion?
Helen Tupper: Sure, after which, you realize why grit? As a result of I used to be going again to, the definition of grit from Angela Duckworth is, “Ardour and perseverance for long-term significant objectives”. And I used to be like, effectively, that is why we pushed, proper?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: As a result of we’re keen about what we’re making an attempt to realize. And we recognise that what we’re engaged on now’s greater than what’s taking place on this 12 months. It is the longer-term issues. So I used to be like, “No, it’s grit”, however at instances it felt, ‘push’!
Sarah Ellis: Or, ‘pushy’!
Helen Tupper: Yeah, however then I obtained into, “Was I being pushy?” and I simply scrapped it. However I’ve talked about it now anyway, so.
Sarah Ellis: Effectively, at the least we’re constant.
Helen Tupper: Sure, however let’s have a look at.
Sarah Ellis: Let’s examine.
Helen Tupper: Let’s examine how constant we’re.
Sarah Ellis: May very well be a bit boring if we’re the identical each time, so let’s hope we’re not.
Helen Tupper: I do know, gosh, are you able to think about? Okay, what was your most memorable day of the 12 months?
Sarah Ellis: I did battle with this, to actually pick …
Helen Tupper: Have all of the good days out of the blue blurred into simply …
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, yeah, positively that. I did battle to select at some point the place I used to be like, “Oh, it was positively that day”. I feel once we do occasions, that at all times actually sticks in my thoughts, as a result of I feel plenty of work goes into occasions. After which it is a very a lot form of a second in time the place you get to, you realize, we have performed some reside podcasts this 12 months, we have performed some work with our studying companions after they’ve all been in a room studying collectively. And I feel the explanation these moments at all times stick out is due to the power that is created, and power is one in all our values at our firm. And I feel it is a second the place you’re feeling all that collective power, which I actually like.
And I feel it offers you a lift to proceed doing what you are doing, since you’re like, “Oh, what we’re doing is making a distinction”, and you’re feeling that and also you get to attach with folks. So, occasions. I simply went, the entire occasions we do, I really feel power and I really feel prefer it offers me power. One different memorable second I did have although was we had been engaged on our guide collectively, and I’ll at all times keep in mind the second the place we modified our minds —
Helen Tupper: Oh, yeah.
Sarah Ellis: — on how we had been going to construction the guide. So, we had gone, I feel it is honest to say, fairly far down one —
Helen Tupper: I feel we would most likely written 30,000 phrases or extra by that time.
Sarah Ellis: Sure.
Helen Tupper: Which is half a guide.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, do not, let’s not get particular as a result of it is actually miserable. However I actually keep in mind the second the place we would circle round just a few instances of like, “Oh, there may very well be a special method of doing this”. I actually keep in mind standing up in that room, strolling over to the flipchart and saying to you, “If we did do that in another way, let’s simply placed on a flipchart, let’s get it out of our methods, what would it not seem like? And we wrote it. And I used to be standing up, you had been sitting down, which is often how we brainstorm. I am meandering round and also you’re kind of sitting again and taking a look at it, after which we each checked out it and we had been like, “That is higher”. And that second of realisation of —
Helen Tupper: “Oh, no!”
Sarah Ellis: — what we needed to let go of to get to one thing higher. We had been like, “This might be higher as a result of we do that”, and it felt virtually concurrently powerful, and the best factor to do. I’m actually pleased with us in that second, as a result of I do not assume that is a simple factor to simply accept and to maneuver on from, and I feel we did do this. And we all know now, as a result of we have had sufficient folks learn it, that it was the best factor to do. However I feel it is a courageous factor to do. So, it is not like that day was explicit — we did not know that was going to occur that day, we simply thought we had been iterating on what we would already performed. However we made a large resolution that is really going to affect a great deal of the work that we do. I’ll at all times keep in mind strolling over to that flipchart.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I keep in mind it, I keep in mind it very effectively and being like, “Oh, that is it”.
Sarah Ellis: What was yours?
Helen Tupper: Mine was an occasion however it was the occasion that you just weren’t at.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, thanks! Nice.
Helen Tupper: It was superb.
Sarah Ellis: You say I am imply!
Helen Tupper: No.
Sarah Ellis: “That occasion that you just did not come to”.
Helen Tupper: No, it is as a result of it was like an actual second for me. So, we launched this 12 months, Gremlins, which is a guide with Pound Challenge, and we had a reside podcast occasion the place we had numerous folks on the stage, like Daisy Buchanan for instance, all speaking about confidence, and this was attributable to be a second —
Sarah Ellis: To rejoice, yeah.
Helen Tupper: — to rejoice. E-book writing is tough and it takes some time and it was imagined to be, like, a second.
Sarah Ellis: I like that guide.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, and I am actually pleased with the guide and actually loved the method, and I feel Sarah usually leads issues with books, since you’re simply excellent at sticking with them, so it is an actual ‘you’ factor as effectively. And then you definitely could not be there since you had been poorly, and I keep in mind being on that stage and pondering, “Oh, I do not actually need to do that with out you”. There was an actual second of me — it was a very good occasion and it was a very nice second, and the conversations had been actually good. And there was plenty of assist.
So, a few of my associates knew how I felt they usually had been within the viewers, they usually’d messaged me beforehand they usually had been like, “It will be okay, it will be okay”, so it was actually variety. However equally, I used to be stood on the stage pondering, “I do not actually need to do that with out you”. So, it was an actual memorable second as a result of, not that I might by no means thought I did. It wasn’t like, “Up till this level, I believed I need to –“
Sarah Ellis: “I’ve obtained my secret marketing strategy”!
Helen Tupper: Yeah! But it surely was simply, it does not actually imply quite a bit, it does not imply as a lot. We at all times speak about, our most memorable moments are so a lot better once we’re in them collectively. And that was a second that you just simply weren’t a part of and it simply felt flawed due to it. So, our third query is about mistake moments. I would want your assist with this one, as a result of I am fairly positive I’ve had numerous mistake moments throughout the 12 months.
Sarah Ellis: Effectively, we all know now we have as a result of we share them.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I do know. And I did seek for them and I used to be like, “Oh, however what’s been…” I really feel like my largest mistake second is one which I may repair. Earlier than the top of the 12 months, I feel I can repair this one. So, my mistake second is, Sarah and I, all of the work that we do with firms, once we’re presenting, we reside draw all of our classes. We do not current with slides, we reside draw every little thing, and we have used the identical app for the final ten years to try this. And my app’s obtained a bit glitchy and I feel I must experiment with another tech, and I really feel like my mistake second is I have not performed that.
I’ve not made time to proactively discover a higher choice. So, I really feel like I’m simply, one thing is not so good as it may very well be, and I am simply sat with it, and it stresses me out each week. It stresses me out as a result of I feel, “Oh, it may go flawed, it may go flawed”. So, my mistake second is, there’s one thing that I may very well be fixing however I am simply sitting with it not being nearly as good. That is what I obtained to. Is {that a} mistake second?
Sarah Ellis: No.
Helen Tupper: Okay. Give me one.
Sarah Ellis: However I feel the explanation I do not assume… What you are describing although is nearly a pre-emptive mistake second, since you’re going, “I do know that app would possibly break, or it feels a bit glitchy”.
Helen Tupper: Effectively, it does break, so I repeatedly have the identical mistake. My different choice —
Sarah Ellis: So, I suppose that is kind of a immediate possibly. As a result of once we speak about mistake moments, it does are typically, you may actually pinpoint, “I made a mistake. I used to be late [or] I obtained some info flawed [or] I used the flawed information level”. Whereas I feel you are speaking about being annoyed about, you may see how one thing may be higher and you’ve got simply not performed something about it.
Helen Tupper: However that mistake — I feel my different choice, one other mistake, and this can be a little bit of recency bias as a result of it actually occurred this morning, was yesterday, I used to be doing one thing with somebody on our workforce and I wrote a complete doc for them they usually stated, “Oh, Helen, I’ve already written that doc and despatched it to you”.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, no!
Helen Tupper: And that’s not the primary time that that has occurred. So, I feel I am noticing I am making just a few repeat errors. My tech has gone down just a few instances and I have not mounted it.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that is fascinating.
Helen Tupper: I’ve performed the work earlier than, I’ve performed what the workforce have performed with out checking with them first. So, I feel my mistake second is I’ve obtained some repeated flags of being a bit, I do not know, a bit inefficient. I do not know. That was my reflection once I was fascinated about all of them.
Sarah Ellis: I used to be researching errors just a little bit for the brand new guide that we had been writing. And the extra you examine errors, the extra you realise it’s unsurprising to repeat errors, as a result of our brains like patterns they usually like familiarity. And so really, you are extra prone to repeat the identical mistake than you’re to be taught from a mistake. We at all times assume, effectively, you make a mistake, however it’s okay since you’ll be taught from it.
You are extra prone to not be taught, which is why we do mistake moments the place throughout the corporate, each time you make a mistake, somebody goes into Groups and really, to the entire firm, we share, “Here is the error second I had however most significantly, here is what I discovered”, in an try to interrupt that sample. As a result of what you would possibly say there’s, “Okay, that second mistake the place I do work that is been performed earlier than, that comes from taking initiative and possibly appearing quick”.
Helen Tupper: Yeah.
Sarah Ellis: “And so really, possibly what it’s, is earlier than I do that, I must have virtually like a press-pause second”.
Helen Tupper: I really feel prefer it’s verify first, act first.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, verify first.
Helen Tupper: However I simply act quick!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, and it is simply that tiny verify that will maybe forestall that. And I feel if you happen to do not flip a mistake second into an motion that you can think of taking, then nothing… Like, I positively precisely the identical. I am like, “Effectively, I’ve not taken an motion”. If I’ve not performed something completely different, how can I count on a special consequence? As a result of I discover that with my mistake moments, it’s usually, even when they don’t seem to be an identical, you may typically spot a theme. What’s yours then?
Sarah Ellis: Effectively, I regarded again over all those from this 12 months in Groups, as a result of I can return and actually learn all of them. Mine are all small, however ones that felt, I used to be virtually shocked that I made them. So, if you happen to simply stated to me, you will make this error, I might be like, “No, I will not make that mistake”. So it is issues like, we turned as much as an occasion this 12 months and I might not obtained a little bit of expertise with me that we at all times want, at all times. So, you are like, “Effectively, however Sarah, you realize that”. And curiously, I did not do not forget that tech.
I’d simply moved home. After which I checked out one other instance and I used to be like, I did not have one thing else with me, I might forgotten one thing, and one thing else was occurring in one other a part of my life. And so, what I’ve began to identify is if you’ve obtained a great deal of capability, clearly you are much less prone to make a mistake, you keep in mind what you could keep in mind. However then I am like, however there’s at all times different stuff occurring. , there’s at all times one thing, proper? There’s one thing at your children’ college or there’s one thing with your loved ones. And this 12 months, and I discover it very stunning, I’ve obtained actually into checklists. I learn the guidelines manifesto!
Helen Tupper: It is so not like you!
Sarah Ellis: I do know it’s, however it’s as a result of it really works. And so, for issues which are repeatable duties, have a guidelines, as a result of primarily you make one thing extra foolproof. And plenty of it comes from like, you realize surgical procedure, the place docs may have checklists.
And truly, although they could have performed the identical surgical procedure a great deal of instances, they nonetheless discovered folks nonetheless make errors. Even such as you would possibly overlook to, I do not know, wash your fingers or one thing. So, I felt higher as a result of I used to be like, okay, possibly I do not really feel fairly so unhealthy about myself that I made these errors. However really, there’s a simple repair you can put in place. And we have simply began to make use of them throughout the workforce, and I do open them. I am like, “Oh, I am simply going to undergo the guidelines. Have I obtained this little bit of tech? This? That?”
Helen Tupper: I am not checklisted up. The place do you assume a guidelines would assist me in my life?
Sarah Ellis: Going to an occasion, working a workshop, doing a podcast recording so you do not overlook your mic, you realize, all of these kinds of issues.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I imply I really feel like they don’t seem to be my points.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, but when it is not your errors, if you happen to’re like, “Effectively, I haven’t got these errors”, you maybe do not want the checklists, you want different issues.
Helen Tupper: Yeah.
Sarah Ellis: I clearly do as a result of I am like, effectively, I can see the patterns and I can then see, I am like once more, “Effectively, I’ve obtained to do one thing completely different”. And I do not assume I am naturally, like I stated, clearly I overlook them as a result of I can kind of see it written down. That is why I like writing down mistake moments, as a result of it makes them information fairly than simply feeling unhealthy.
Helen Tupper: what, I really feel such as you might need misplaced your pockets much less this 12 months. Is {that a} honest level?
Sarah Ellis: I do not ever lose my pockets.
Helen Tupper: You used to lose your playing cards on a regular basis, do you keep in mind?
Sarah Ellis: No.
Helen Tupper: You probably did?
Sarah Ellis: No.
Helen Tupper: You’ll at all times be like, “I can not discover my playing cards, I can not discover my…”
Sarah Ellis: So, proper, so my argument is, proper, there is a distinction between not with the ability to discover one thing —
Helen Tupper: Oh, good lord, no!
Sarah Ellis: So, I do not ever lose them completely.
Helen Tupper: Okay, positive. I really feel like you’ve got misplaced your playing cards much less this 12 months
. Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that may be true.
Helen Tupper: Fourth query, what’s a talent that you’ve higher at over the past 12 months?
Sarah Ellis: I discovered this the simplest of the questions.
Helen Tupper: Okay.
Sarah Ellis: I feel it’s receiving suggestions particularly from you, as a result of once we’ve gone by means of the method of writing a guide, and due to the way in which that we have written our newest guide, I’ve obtained extra suggestions, I feel, than I’ve ever obtained earlier than. And a few of that’s hard-to-hear suggestions, or it is suggestions the place you’re possibly beginning once more a number of the time.
There’s numerous sunk prices within the writing course of typically. And typically, it’s important to take a deep breath, otherwise you really feel sure feelings, and also you kind of need to experience out these feelings after which come collectively and be very pragmatic and sensible, and in addition be actually open. So, often, you write one thing and also you assume, you are like, “I feel that is good [or] I feel this works very well”, and you do not, proper? And so, you may argue about it in an unhelpful method, or you may constructively attempt to be actually open, attempt to pay attention. You positively need to put any ego I feel it’s important to one facet, albeit writing is kind of, in some methods, it’s fairly an ego-driven factor, since you’re writing these phrases. I felt actually proud at instances that I felt like I at the least tried, you’ll inform me the way it felt from the opposite facet, I attempted to be actually accepting and open and constructive. And at instances, that was that was actually troublesome, however I used to be additionally aware of, I attempted to cope with that in my very own method, so then it did not kind of get in the way in which of us making progress, as a result of I feel if I simply kind of… The problem typically with you and I working collectively shouldn’t be solely are we writing collectively, we’re working a enterprise collectively, we’re excellent associates collectively, and typically I might be like, “I need to speak to a pal”, and I used to be like, “however you are my pal”, and I used to be like, “I would like new associates”!
Helen Tupper: That is suggestions!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, yeah. However you realize if you’re like, our worlds typically are so blurred?
Helen Tupper: Sure, sure.
Sarah Ellis: You and I had just a few instances this 12 months the place you are like, proper, every little thing merges and moulds collectively in such a method. And I feel throughout that course of, I used to be simply very targeted on being like, how will we hold shifting this guide ahead in a method that is actually pragmatic, and simply hold our readers in thoughts. But it surely wasn’t at all times simple. And I do assume I’ve obtained higher at that now, partly by means of observe, proper? In the event you’d stated, “I simply need to get higher at it”, in a vacuum, you most likely will not. However I feel there was a little bit of a forcing perform, and since it wasn’t very easy. It wasn’t like we simply wrote every little thing and went, “Oh, yeah, it is all good”. It was fairly a special course of to writing Gremlins, the place actually we had been speaking about issues that we already knew labored and there was much less form of newness that we wanted to create there. So, yeah, that was my talent.
Helen Tupper: Effectively, I feel that I do not actually love giving troublesome suggestions. It isn’t one thing I actually take pleasure in doing. And I feel I gave what most likely felt like troublesome suggestions that did not really feel troublesome. So, I can not say, “Oh, I feel you are so a lot better at this than you had been 12 months in the past”. I can say I feel we have had plenty of it this 12 months, and it positively has felt arduous at instances. However I’ve by no means discovered it arduous to speak to you. So, you have at all times been receptive and open, and I can see the breath. I can see it, like actually like a, “Okay, let’s go once more”. I can actually see it, however there’s at all times a, “Let’s go once more”. There’s not a, “Proper, I am coming to battle you on this level”.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, yeah.
Helen Tupper: Mine is, I do not know if you happen to’ll agree with this, however I feel I’ve obtained higher at this.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, go on.
Helen Tupper: The talent of claiming no. I feel I am saying no extra. I feel I’ve obtained my very own little no-cabulary, which we have talked about earlier than, I feel I’ve a method of doing it. However I positively assume I am saying no to extra issues, to sure alternatives that we have had. I am like, “I do not assume that is the best factor for us proper now”. I really feel like I am getting a bit higher at saying no and never feeling unhealthy about it, which is the second a part of saying no, I feel. You have to say no and really personal your no. Reflections?
Sarah Ellis: I suppose I do not see it, however then I do not assume I might.
Helen Tupper: Okay.
Sarah Ellis: , I am not seeing these noes more often than not, I might think about, since you’re coping with it instantly, so it is not that seen for me. I suppose different folks in our workforce would possibly see it extra. You have talked to me about one factor that you’ll say no to subsequent 12 months.
Helen Tupper: Already stated no.
Sarah Ellis: Which shocked me and I used to be like, “Oh, Helen’s going to say no to that!”
Helen Tupper: But additionally, we had fairly a giant alternative that we stated no to just lately.
Sarah Ellis: Sure.
Helen Tupper: And I feel I used to be form of holding the no on that one just a little bit.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, and I feel most likely for me as effectively, it is arduous to be actually balanced round that, as a result of typically, I suppose, the conversations now we have are the place you have not stated no and then you definitely’re actually feeling it. So, I feel I really feel these moments the place you have obtained actually crunchy instances, and I am like, “Wow”, it is since you’ve stated sure to a lot. I feel I see the spikiness that creates for you and you are like, “I am going from one factor to the following, to the following, and I’ve obtained a night factor, and I’ve obtained one other night factor”. I feel, simply due to our relationship, that’s extra seen to me than the noes, which does not imply I do not consider you. I simply do not assume I see it.
Helen Tupper: It is best to see the noes in my inbox. There’s many, many like, “Not proper now”, kind factor.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that is good.
Helen Tupper: The final one is, what will we recognize about one another? Over the 12 months, what have you ever appreciated? What have you ever appreciated about me this 12 months?
Sarah Ellis: I at all times really feel such as you need me to be joyful.
Helen Tupper: I do!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I do know!
Helen Tupper: I do!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah. And so, I feel you care about what does it take and what does it seem like for Sarah to benefit from the work that she does, do the work that she’s finest at, after which you’ll at all times assume, how can I make that occur? How can I be useful? How can I provide the house to try this? Even when it is not the identical for you, which really usually is not the identical for each of us, we positively have some issues in frequent, however I at all times really feel that assist from you to be like, effectively, if I then stated one thing completely different to what you already learn about me, I simply at all times know that your first response is unquestionably like, “Proper, okay, effectively what do we have to do, and the way can we take into consideration this in another way?” If I stated to you, “I need to work –” this isn’t true, “I need to work at some point every week”, I do not assume you would be like, “Oh, no”, you would be like, “Proper, okay, effectively let’s speak about that”.
Helen Tupper: I feel I might do the breath that you just do with suggestions. I might be like, “Okay, at some point every week, let’s discover a method”.
Sarah Ellis: However you’d discover a method.
Helen Tupper: I might discover a method.
Sarah Ellis: That is a really Helen phrase, you are like, “Let’s discover a method”. I do assume it is fairly uncommon to have another person who you are working with who’s so invested in your model of success. And that feels very nice, as a result of that seems like we are able to have very completely different conversations. And also you’re really very non-judgmental. As a result of I do know typically issues that will matter to me would not matter to you, and in addition vice versa. I really feel such as you’re by no means going, “I do not get why that is vital, Sarah, why that will matter”. I simply ask, “How can I assist or how can I assist?” and I feel that’s uniquely you. And it is not simply within the final 12 months, however I do at all times really feel it. There you go.
Helen Tupper: That is very good, thanks.
Sarah Ellis: You seem like you would possibly need to hug me.
Helen Tupper: I really feel heat and fuzzy. Sarah Ellis: I am like, “Do not hug me!”
Helen Tupper: I am not going to hug her, she’s obtained a chilly. I am not going close to her. Mine, what I recognize about you is, I’ve put ‘challenger’.
Sarah Ellis: Fairly completely different to what I’ve simply stated!
Helen Tupper: No, however I really feel like you’re at all times difficult us to be higher, just like the guide, like how may or not it’s higher? one thing may be higher, you will not let it go, you would be like, you’d problem us to enhance the standard of our studying, the place I will be like, “Okay, I feel it is ok”. You are like, “No”, you’ll at all times problem us, or how can we be extra related? Or how can we enhance what we’re doing? Or how can we do that higher for the workforce? And even once we’re busy, like this 12 months, we have had a lot on, we have had the enterprise and we have had the guide, there’s been a lot on, and you do not let that go. You at all times hold that bar of like, “Effectively, how may we be higher? How may we make that sentence higher?”
Like, it goes from technique to sentences! The problem, you apply it to a lot of what you do, and I feel it is simply very completely different to me. And I am very grateful for it, as a result of I feel we’re all higher, what we produce is best, the workforce is best. I’m higher as a result of you’ve got this kind of relentless, “However we may do this higher, we are able to make that completely different. We should not simply settle for it as a result of that is what we have performed”. And I feel I actually recognize it as a result of it is not what I convey. And so, I actually worth that you have at all times obtained that.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I feel it is simply, you realize this stuff, typically most likely the stuff you recognize probably the most are sometimes, you realize, like a part of your DNA. Like, I do not really feel like I select that. I simply really feel like that’s the method that my mind works, typically for higher, typically for worse. Similar to I feel your mind works in a method the place you are like, you would not query me, you’d discover a method with me. I feel that is simply your — you realize, typically our defaults are additionally what makes us actually good. And it’s good for folks to say what they recognize about you. It is a good workforce train.
Helen Tupper: Group train. Group train, it is good. So, let’s transfer into three reflective questions, possibly not so fast, possibly a bit extra thought’s required.
Sarah Ellis: We weren’t that fast, had been we?
Helen Tupper: We weren’t that fast!
Sarah Ellis: We had been luxuriating within the end-of-year podcast, aren’t we? Helen Tupper: I feel, however is not that good?
Sarah Ellis: It’s good.
Helen Tupper: Is not it good to luxuriate on the 12 months, although? if you undergo stuff so quick on a regular basis, really it is fairly good to only spend like 15-20 minutes luxuriating in what you spent a 12 months of your life doing. Okay so let’s luxuriate some extra. When do you assume you’ve got had probably the most constructive affect this 12 months? I’ve gone with two, which I’ve obtained an extended record!
Sarah Ellis: Virtually the query must be like, “Have not I?”
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I’ve obtained an extended record! So, I’ve obtained two. Possibly you may resolve for me. Possibly that is a part of it, like, it is best to resolve once I’ve had probably the most constructive affect.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, okay.
Helen Tupper: So, I’ve put two down. I feel there are particular consumer programmes that I’ve run, and I am unsure if I can identify them, however there are a few huge consumer programmes that I’ve run that I really feel like I’ve made a very huge distinction to the corporate and the folks within the firms, virtually like at a cultural degree, and I really feel actually pleased with that. That is had a huge impact for these people, and really for us by way of {our relationships} with these shoppers. I am pleased with that. After which I feel we have had a few campaigns, like issues just like the Dash in summer season. I really feel like one of many variations that I — I am fairly good at a marketing campaign. You are actually good at a long-term dedication, like a guide. I am fairly good at a short-term challenge. And I really feel like I’ve a constructive affect on — we had 1,000,000 minutes of studying that individuals did in our dash this 12 months due to what we created. And I am going, “Effectively, that is 1,000,000 minutes of studying that would not have occurred if we hadn’t created the dash”. So, these are mine.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, I do not assume I can select. I really feel like they had been each good.
Helen Tupper: “A type of was garbage, Helen, you may’t bag that one!”
Sarah Ellis: No, I may positively not select. And truly, mine was completely different.
Mine was our Squiggle and Keep programme, which the constructive affect is, a small slice belongs to me, however plenty of the constructive impacts of that programme belongs to you and the companions that we labored with, as a result of actually they had been those doing the experiments. So, the thought with that challenge is that individuals signed as much as new methods to assist folks to form of transfer round their organisations. And I feel the constructive impacts that I particularly had, that is virtually like observe for an interview query, is not it, like, “How did you contribute to that huge challenge?” was virtually initially with the concepts. So, we created an concepts financial institution for the businesses. I feel it had 16 completely different concepts in, and it was like, “Oh, you could possibly attempt profession safaris, you could possibly attempt transfer mentoring”. The explanation I feel now we have a constructive affect in that second is we’re good at each developing with concepts, and that is a energy that I’ve obtained, but additionally describing them in a method that is memorable, form of labelling the educational, giving them a reputation, giving them a little bit of an id. And I feel we had been kind of a catalyst for these organisations to then say, effectively, you alter them otherwise you adapt them or iterate, be certain that they work in your context”. However I really feel like if we weren’t that catalyst, these organisations and all their staff who then benefited from these experiments, that would not have occurred. A bit like your, “The million minutes would not have occurred if we hadn’t performed that”, I form of go, a great deal of folks would not have had the chance to squiggle and keep if we form of hadn’t created that programme.
And like I say, I really feel like we had been the catalyst, after which a great deal of the arduous work was performed by the organisations we labored with, like Specsavers and Welsh Water and Danske Financial institution. And I keep in mind pondering like, “That is superb, what they’re all going away and doing”. Then, I am actually proud that we have then revealed all the outcomes of that and all the information brazenly in order that anybody can entry it, and that feels very per why we had been an Wonderful If and what we try to do round profession improvement, like making it out there to everyone. And so, I feel I am taking a small slice of credit score for one thing that truly I really feel simply actually pleased with everybody who was concerned in that.
Helen Tupper: Effectively, if that was an interview I might provide the job.
Sarah Ellis: Thanks.
Helen Tupper: You have obtained the job to Squiggly Profession co-founder, I will let you’ve got that!
Sarah Ellis: Thanks!
Helen Tupper: I am laughing at this one, as a result of you do not know my reply to this one.
Sarah Ellis: Go on.
Helen Tupper: Who have you ever been studying from this 12 months? Who’s going first?
Sarah Ellis: Go on then, you go, since you’ve obtained me intrigued now.
Helen Tupper: I do know. I have not informed you this. You are going to be like, “What is that this?” Okay, so I’ve been a part of — what? What?
Sarah Ellis: It’ll be some kind of bizarre YouTube factor.
Helen Tupper: No, it is not.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, okay.
Helen Tupper: It isn’t. You are going to assume that is actually bizarre. Flip Flippen, who I’ve not informed you about, okay. So, I’m a part of a community referred to as EY Successful Girls, and I am going to varied occasions with this group and meet plenty of completely different folks. And I just lately went away with them to a convention, referred to as the Strategic Progress Discussion board, the place you bought to choose some folks to satisfy. And one of many people who I wished to satisfy was Flip Flippen.
Sarah Ellis: I imply, what a reputation.
Helen Tupper: I do know, precisely. However he additionally runs a studying organisation over within the US, notably targeted on schooling. And so, oh my God, I have not informed you this. So, I went to satisfy Flip Flippen. I do not understand how outdated Flip is. I feel Flip may be about 80.
Sarah Ellis: Proper, okay.
Helen Tupper: 70, 80.
Sarah Ellis: Numerous knowledge then.
Helen Tupper: Numerous knowledge. And I sat down with Flip and his CEO. And Flip is a psychotherapist by coaching, and he kind of brings. You sit — I sat at a desk, it was a spherical desk, and also you sit there and he like appears into your soul. I began crying!
Sarah Ellis: How have you ever not informed me this?
Helen Tupper: As a result of I’ve not caught up with you in regards to the Strategic Progress Discussion board.
Sarah Ellis: Okay, yeah positive.
Helen Tupper: So, mainly it was a very fascinating dialog.
Sarah Ellis: I imply that is just like the sound bathtub factor over again, you popping out of one thing crying, and me going, “What is going on?”
Helen Tupper: Me hugging the therapist! That was probably the most superb expertise I’ve ever had in my life! When he hit the bong.
Sarah Ellis: It did nothing for me, for positive.
Helen Tupper: No, he did not have a bong. However we did sit at a desk and he was asking some questions. I used to be asking Flip about like how’s he scaled his enterprise and the way does he use expertise, and all this type of stuff. After which, he was simply asking me these actually deep questions on, like, what motivates you to do what you do?
Sarah Ellis: And also you began crying?
Helen Tupper: Effectively, as a result of he stored going additional and additional. It was like he was trying into my soul. He was like, “However why, Helen? What’s the that means for you in your work? What drives you to make a distinction to folks’s improvement? I used to be like, “I do not know, I simply need to assist folks, Flip”!
Sarah Ellis: Oh my God!
Helen Tupper: Anyway, I discovered quite a bit from him as a result of he was simply very honest and really heat, and I feel typically you assume somebody has to inform you one thing to be taught from them, however really I feel I simply discovered that typically, simply asking questions is sufficient. , like, if you’re being mentored, I feel you are like, “Oh, the worth on this dialog is the knowledge I’ll get from Sarah”. I am unsure Flip imparted any knowledge on me, however what he did do was ask me some questions that made me assume a bit extra deeply about what I am doing and why I do it, the place my motivation comes from, and related, and since he was actually taking a look at me. We had been on this large convention, so many individuals, busy, noisy, however he simply checked out me and requested me the questions and waited for my reply. And I feel it is such a, I do not know, I feel I used to be a bit overwhelmed; I used to be a bit drained! I feel there have been different causes I cried, and it wasn’t like an outpouring, it was only a… After which he went again, he stated to me, “There was a little bit of emotion there, Helen, can we return to that?” and I used to be like, “Can we not? Can we transfer?”
Sarah Ellis: I might like to have been a fly on the wall for that half! However possibly there’s one thing there about asking and a spotlight. So, he was each asking you actually good questions, after which actually paying consideration. As a result of if he observed a little bit of emotion, but additionally being very current.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, simply when your eyes get just a little bit glassy. I used to be like, “I used to be making an attempt to overlook that”! So, yeah, anyway that was a dialog.
Sarah Ellis: Effectively, there you go, there’s new information for me.
Helen Tupper: New information, information you did not know. Who have you ever discovered from this 12 months?
Sarah Ellis: I really considered this barely in another way, as a result of I feel in plenty of methods, I’ve spent numerous time on my own this 12 months, by necessity. It sounds actually bleak, does not it? However if you end up writing a guide and you do not do it fairly often, so that is plenty of phrases, books are actual workforce efforts, however there’s a part of the guide writing course of that could be a very solo endeavour. It may be fairly lonely at instances, however I did really feel like one of many issues that I actually take pleasure in about writing a guide is the method of studying from plenty of folks that truly you have not met.
So, I feel my ratio of non-fiction guide studying once I’m writing a guide goes up tenfold. If I have a look at what number of books I’ve now obtained versus what number of books I had initially of writing my newest guide, I’ve most likely obtained 50 new books. And typically that is as a result of I wished to learn a chapter, typically it may very well be as small as a paragraph, typically it was the entire guide. So, I really feel like I’ve frolicked with plenty of new folks. And at the least a few of these folks, I feel I might wish to get in contact with and see in the event that they’d like to return on the podcast, for instance, for skilled interviews. So I used to be like, effectively, I’ve positively discovered from these folks, whether or not that is about pausing or perfectionism or being a newbie or whether or not that is giving. And typically, these books as effectively form of take you outdoors of your world. They are not about careers or they don’t seem to be about studying, however they’ve written one thing related or that someway is fascinating to what we’re writing about. So, I used to be like, they’re most likely the folks I’ve discovered probably the most from.
However I’ve additionally discovered, I do not know whether or not I’ve discovered from, however I’ve actually wanted two of my associates this 12 months, Rachel and Rob, who I’ll give a shoutout to. I really feel like they’ve been by my facet by means of that writing course of in a method you can’t do, since you’re within the writing course of and you could critique it and we have to form of edit it collectively. I might simply go away them voice notes form of saying hey and kind of describing the place I used to be, they usually at all times knew what chapter I used to be engaged on. And I might be in the identical place doing very comparable walks on daily basis, and I might be like, “Oh, I am on the Being a Newbie chapter and I’ve obtained to the top of that [or] I’ve give you a good suggestion right here [or] I’ve obtained a bit caught”. And Rachel’s obtained her little child, Janie, and so I am very grateful she’s on maternity go away!
Helen Tupper: As a result of you may go away her these voice notes and she or he’ll pay attention!
Sarah Ellis: I stated to her, I’ll want some kind of transition plan. When she goes again to work, I’ll want some kind of like, how do I get weaned off her giving me all this? So you realize, I feel, typically your excellent associates, they usually’re two of my finest associates, they know what you want if you want it, they usually’ve actually proven up for me and been extremely supportive. And I kind of cannot think about having performed it with out the 2 of them. And Rob’s additionally, he is the one individual really, aside from our editor, who’s learn the entire guide. He gave us some actually useful insights as we had been going. And you realize if you simply want simply these — I do not want a great deal of folks, however I do want a few individuals who I really feel are on my facet, are with me, and they’re prepared you to succeed. And they’d most likely hear typically if I obtained a bit caught, if I used to be doubting myself they usually’d attempt to like, I do not know, at the least encourage me or remind me, “You have performed it earlier than, you are able to do it once more”. And so, yeah, I suppose it did make me mirror just a little bit on the continued significance of getting the best folks, since you by no means fairly know if you’ll want them. In the event you had stated to me that was going to be as vital because it has been this 12 months, I do not assume I might have guessed that, however I do not assume I might have gotten by means of the 12 months with that grit with out them.
Helen Tupper: Very good. Okay, final query. Sarah Ellis: Okay.
Helen Tupper: Are you prepared?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: What do you need to be true in 12 months’ time that’s not true right this moment?
Sarah Ellis: I would really like us to have spent extra time creating collectively in a room by this time subsequent 12 months.
Helen Tupper: Oh, I would really like that too. I did not write it, however I would really like that too.
Sarah Ellis: Disgrace, disgrace. I imply, do not feel unhealthy about it, however you realize!
Helen Tupper: I need that too; I’ve actually missed that this 12 months. I form of assume that the muse of every little thing was time like that collectively, and we simply have not had that point.
Sarah Ellis: I feel all of our greatest stuff, once I take into consideration every little thing we have performed that is actually good, that makes a distinction to Squiggly, will increase our affect, and even when now we have performed the guide stuff collectively this 12 months, all of our huge breakthroughs on the guide had been collectively, and sometimes in a room collectively, me pacing in circles, you sitting down watching me tempo.
Helen Tupper: Strolling down the seaside.
Sarah Ellis: Strolling down a seaside collectively. I imply we ditched a few of that stuff, however you have to get to that breakthrough to get to the following breakthrough. And even when I feel again, whether or not it is TED Talks or podcasts, or these sorts of issues, it is at all times in these moments the place our brains are kind of fizzing and merging and completely different in all kinds of excellent methods, and that is why I am like, we’re higher as a result of we’re a workforce. And yeah, for many causes this 12 months, I feel now we have to take accountability for that. We did not prioritise it and we did a number of the issues that I feel we’re each actually pleased with. However I would not need to be sitting right here this this time subsequent 12 months and never having spent that point collectively.
Helen Tupper: Agreed.
Sarah Ellis: I am not forcing you into it now.
Helen Tupper: No, I do know.
Sarah Ellis: “I do not need to spend extra time collectively!”
Helen Tupper: No, I actually need to, no. Mine is completely different. So, by this time subsequent 12 months, I would really like there to be 10,000 lobsters able to be taught. I need that as a result of our new guide, Study Like a Lobster, is popping out in simply over a 12 months. So, by this time subsequent 12 months, I need there to be like a degree of pleasure. I need there to be 10,000 people who find themselves like, “I’m in, I’m able to be taught like a lobster, I am able to advocate for this new method of approaching”. I need there to be pleasure, clearly, as a result of I do.
Sarah Ellis: And we will not speak in regards to the guide masses, however I really feel like if we’ll say the title, we must always clarify that lobsters by no means cease rising. And there is tons to like in regards to the lobster. They by no means cease rising, they gas their very own development, they’re very self-sufficient, they kind of create their very own development, after which they kind of develop by means of these fairly arduous moments. And that offers you a little bit of a touch. It is a bit of a teaser for what’s to return. It’s going to make sense, the truth that we’re speaking about lobsters and studying, we promise.
Helen Tupper: With 10,000 folks, we’ll be purchased into it by this time subsequent 12 months, they usually’ll be making it make sense!
Sarah Ellis: Whether or not they prefer it or not, it is the way in which they will describe it!
Helen Tupper: Precisely! Lobsters are go, lobsters are rising and lobsters are studying, that is the plan.
Sarah Ellis: So, if you want to do a 12 months in evaluation, I feel you are able to do it by your self, I feel you are able to do it with a pal, you are able to do it in a workforce, you could possibly do it along with your supervisor. Take a look on the PodSheet, as a result of we’ll put the questions that we have talked by means of right this moment on there, so you may refer again to these. Now we have additionally obtained just a few different assets. We have got articles, we have frameworks you can have a look at. So, please take advantage of these. They’re all free and prepared and ready for you.
Helen Tupper: Thanks a lot for listening to us and to our journey over the past 12 months. It has been an excellent 12 months of studying with the Squiggly Profession neighborhood. So, thanks for being a part of that. And we’ll be again with you subsequent 12 months.
Sarah Ellis: So, here is to some squiggling in 2025.